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Author Topic: This is what i love  (Read 6578 times)

Horsley54

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This is what i love
« on: March 17, 2006, 03:14:04 PM »
I love how people for AA don't want discrimination, but are all for reverse discrimination.  Yes discriminate against white people, but let me in.  YAY for you.
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LitDoc

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Re: This is what i love
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2006, 03:20:47 PM »
I tried to post a response to your previous anti-AA thread -- but it was locked. You don't seem to understand much about this whole issue, Horsley.

1. There's no such thing as "reverse" discrimination. To think that there is necessistates the idea that discrimination naturally moves in one direction, so that to change its direction requires "reversal." This, in itself, is racist thinking.

2. AA does not entail any kind of systematic discrimination against whites. It is not anti-white policy.

3. A good educative environment is a diverse environment, and vice versa. So, to provide a good educative environment, schools SHOULD be interested in diversity.

4. Idiots like you always try to claim that things should be strictly merit-based. You think AA does away with this, because White Boy Q didn't get in, when he had better numbers than Brown Boy P, who did get in. What you fail to understand is that merit-based decisions are still occurring -- White Boy Q could have gotten in, if only his numbers would have been better than White Boy G. You see? No systematic discrimination against whites -- just tighter competition for everybody.

Go peddle your ignorant hate somewhere else.
"There is no was." -- William Faulkner

University of Texas, Class of '09

Horsley54

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Re: This is what i love
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2006, 03:33:28 PM »
I love to read all your posts LitDoc, because you are always soo quick to call some an idiot or tell them they are wrong.  It's rather quite humorous.  But anyway back to the topic at hand.  AA has done great things for minorities i admit this i am not saying it does not have it's merits, but you are talking about pure Merit base, isn't that the point of trying to do your best in school and on the LSAT.  I keep hearing the LSAT is discriminatory towards minorities, i mean WTF, the test might have been made my a bunch of white men and women, but minorities have the same resources that whites do, so why should they be held to a different standard.  Also in school, last time i checked, minorities were sitting in the same classroom as i was, so why should that make them any different.  Also i did not say diversity was not a good thing, but why should whites be compared solely to whites, blacks solely to blacks, hispanics to hispanics, etc.  When someone applies for a job, it's not about the color of their skin it's about the abilities they have shown in the past.
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LitDoc

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Re: This is what i love
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2006, 03:55:12 PM »
1. I apologize for calling you an idiot. That was a lapse. But I also defy you to find examples how I am "always so quick" to do this. I may be quick to counter what someone is saying, if I think they're off about something -- but I'm generally very slow to start calling names, and I usually refrain from doing it altogether. This case is an exception, though, because I think you're displaying some rather shocking ignorance.

2. I'm not talking about "pure merit-based" anything -- I said that people like you usually want things to be purely merit-based. Which usually means purely numbers-based. I would never be in favor of that sort of assessment/evaluation.

3. The fact that you can say "minorities have the same resources that whites do" is utterly staggering. You're so ignorant, you don't realize how ignorant this sounds. I don't even know where to start in trying to respond to it...

4. You think sitting in the same classroom makes people the same? If you grow up poor with a single parent and a gay sibling, and someone else in your class grows up semi-wealthy with two working parents and a sibling with Downs Syndrome, then your backgrounds and views are very different from one another -- even if you have the SAME skin color or ethnicity. Toss race & ethnicity into the mix, and your experiences will vary even more.

5. I never said whites should only be compared to whites, etc. I said only that there may be fewer seats for white students if a school is also trying to admit black and brown and red and yellow students -- and one white kid who got turned away might have gotten in had he been more qualified than other white kids. He also might have gotten in had he had different soft factors, or come from a different part of the country. The point is that he didn't get turned away simply because he was white -- which means there wasn't any so-called "reverse discrimination" going on, as you seem to believe.

6. The goals of employers are different from the goals of educators. You keep wanting to bring employers into this, as an analogy. But these are two different contexts. Education is substantially improved by diversity, thus it is a valid objective for educators to try to create a diverse educative environment. Reasons for AA in the workplace are different, and not relevant to the current discussion.
"There is no was." -- William Faulkner

University of Texas, Class of '09

Horsley54

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Re: This is what i love
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2006, 04:01:20 PM »
You make it sound like i hate black people.  My point i am trying to make is the admissions process, hiring process and even AA are overly flawed.  When i refer to merit based, i am not going strictly by numbers.  I have worked my @ss off in a law firm for the past 4 years, to have that not make a bit of a d@mn difference.  My main point in my post, is what i have already stated, that the complete system is flawed, and i def believe that it should not be solely based on numbers.  I hate the face that the LSAT is given soo much weight, GPA and even many soft factors are never even considered for many of the apps that are sent in.
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coquita

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Re: This is what i love
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2006, 04:25:37 PM »
so you want your soft factors to be considered but not the soft factors of URMs such as discrimination, poverty, living in high crime areas etc? or do you want them to consider eveyone's soft factors and disregard race ccompletely? ???

LitDoc

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Re: This is what i love
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2006, 04:26:08 PM »
If your beef is that the system is generally flawed, and/or that it puts too much emphasis on LSAT/GPA numbers, then why not start a thread complaining about that?

Instead, you choose to start a thread (two actually -- the other one, which was phrased even more offensively, got axed I assume) that attacks the idea that "minority" status should be considered in the admissions process. And you do it in a way that makes you look/sound bitter toward those who may have been helped by their "minority" status. That's what makes you look like a bigot -- not anything I said.

And here's the irony: you seem to be saying that you think "soft factors" and things other than LSAT/GPA ought to be considered -- but what, pray tell, is "minority status" if it isn't one of those "soft factors" you're talking about? In other words, considering "minority" status is one way for law schools to look beyond the numbers -- precisely what you want them to do -- but you're complaining about it, while also complaining that they don't look enough beyond the numbers.

In the end, it appears that you're just bitter that you didn't get in to some of the schools you would have liked to have gotten in to, and you're looking for someone or something to blame. I'm sorry about your disappointments -- I've had some, too. And I, too, think the numbers should count for less than they do. But don't take out your frustrations on "minority" applicants who got in.
"There is no was." -- William Faulkner

University of Texas, Class of '09

coquita

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Re: This is what i love
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2006, 04:37:45 PM »
 minorities in inner city areas do not have anything close to the resources available in suburban public schools . my mom teaches in camden, new jersey and her school has mold, rats, and roaches everywhere. the textbooks are outdated and the kids do not learn the computer skills that are taught in suburban schools with computer labs. this affects UGPA because if your school resources and teachers did a poor job in high school you probably didn't have the skills needed in college and got a low GPA freshman year.

so you may think the resources were equal in college...but the resources before college are not equal at all. and it is not a level playing ground in college either. because some students have to support themselves through college and others don't, regardless of race.

in my opinion this is how admissions should evaluate students in order of importance:
1) UGPA
2) soft factors
3) LSAT
4) URM status

I am for AA. but since there are many poor disadvantaged whites who also bring economic diversity to the table I think soft factors should come before LSAT score and URM status.

Horsley54

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Re: This is what i love
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2006, 04:50:06 PM »
I mean LitDoc WTF.  What happened to no name calling, i think you just threw bigot out there.  Last time i checked race, age, sex, location all those factors are demographics not soft factors.

coquita i agree with your first three but like i said, i do not believe URM should be considered.
1. UGPA
2. Background- Rough neighboorhood, no parents, but not race
3. Soft Factors
4. LSAT (a test should not play that much of a role)
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LitDoc

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Re: This is what i love
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2006, 04:59:39 PM »
I mean LitDoc WTF.  What happened to no name calling, i think you just threw bigot out there.  Last time i checked race, age, sex, location all those factors are demographics not soft factors.

coquita i agree with your first three but like i said, i do not believe URM should be considered.
1. UGPA
2. Background- Rough neighboorhood, no parents, but not race
3. Soft Factors
4. LSAT (a test should not play that much of a role)

Horsley, you expressed concern about me making it sound like you "don't like black people." I was only saying that, if you look like a bigot, it's because of your own posts, not because of something I said. I was not trying to say, definitively, that you are a bigot.

And those things you list are NOT "demographics." They are qualities that are counted when we assess the demographics of a community, yes. But they are qualities -- markers of identity and experience and viewpoint.

You seem to have a particular definition in mind for "soft factors." I am assuming that anything and everything that is not or cannot be quantified is a "soft factor." But in your priority list, you separate "background" from "soft factors." Why? What do you take "soft factors" to entail?

And how in the world do you consider "background" WITHOUT considering race/ethnicity?!? This is ludicrous, if you ask me. Poverty, rough neighborhoods, coping with oppression or hardship or prejudice -- so much of this is so strongly correlated with certain racial and ethnic groups that I'm amazed anyone would suggest they can be separated.
"There is no was." -- William Faulkner

University of Texas, Class of '09