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dbgirl

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Re: Not looking to start an online fight but …
« Reply #70 on: February 20, 2006, 02:53:31 PM »
Geez, why can't white people have a month  ;)
When you have somebody dying because they are poor and black or poor and white or because of whatever they are ... that erases everything that's great about this country.

-TMcGraw

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ScoopNY

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Re: Not looking to start an online fight but …
« Reply #71 on: February 20, 2006, 02:57:38 PM »
Lord, why did someone link me to this thread? I need my blood pressure raised like I need a hole in my head. At least it reminds me of college, where I found, I always found myself explaining black people to white people. "You see, black hair is kinky and the pick, it takes out the kinks. You see?"

Often black people are in a spotlight in elite schools. We are a curiosity and we get approached by people who ask simple questions like "hey, that discrimination thing? It's over now right?" I'm old, I was a freshmen in college the day of the Rodney King riots, I still have nightmares trying to explain the riots to white middle-class suburban boys "Why are black people so angry?" to wit I would respond: "Have you been to South-Central? Let me tell you."

The reason why a White Student Law Board would be offensive is because no one who runs it would have any idea what it means to be white, because no one ever thinks like that and there's no such thing as a "shared white culture." There are white people who celebrate their ethnicity (Jews, Italians) or geography (New Englanders and Southerners) but not their sole whiteness, because it would require them to acknowledge the privileges
they receive solely because of the color of their skin and that quickly leads to racial supremacy. White folks rarely deconstruct the reason why whiteness exists because it's more of a manufactured concept than blackness. Anyone can be white as long as they have the skin. You can be a Russian fresh off the boat from Moscow and you can be as white as a 10th generation Southerner, but those two people would have no shared culture.

For black folks, particularly American black folks, there's a lot of shared history, even if your family has lived in the North for 400 years and your fellow student grew up in rural Mississippi. We have all lived through some of the same things. Even West Indian students have something in common with black folks in America. And sometimes, we like to talk to each other and not have to defend our existence.

This all reminds me of the opening paragraphs of W.E.B. DuBois book "Souls of Black Folk" which was written more than a century ago but still resonates with me today and I'll leave you with that now:

Quote
Between me and the other world there is ever an unasked question: unasked by some through feelings of delicacy; by others through the difficulty of rightly framing it. All, nevertheless, flutter round it. They approach me in a half-hesitant sort of way, eye me curiously or compassionately, and then, instead of saying directly, How does it feel to be a problem? they say, I know an excellent colored man in my town; or, I fought at Mechanicsville; or, Do not these Southern outrages make your blood boil? At these I smile, or am interested, or reduce the boiling to a simmer, as the occasion may require. To the real question, How does it feel to be a problem? I answer seldom a word.

 
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dbgirl

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Re: Not looking to start an online fight but …
« Reply #72 on: February 20, 2006, 03:07:53 PM »
Someone once said that being white is like being right-handed. I think that's a good analogy. I don't usually think about how being right-handed is an advantage, I usually take it for granted.
When you have somebody dying because they are poor and black or poor and white or because of whatever they are ... that erases everything that's great about this country.

-TMcGraw

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Hybrid Vigor

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Re: Not looking to start an online fight but …
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2006, 03:08:29 PM »
Here is my contribution to this thread. I've highlighted the ones I feel apply to this thread (which I have followed, more or less). Some of these are trivial, some I would argue aren't even really true, but none the less, I like this.

White Privilege. (written by Peggy McIntosh)

As a white person, I realized I had been taught about racism as something that puts others at a disadvantage, but had been taught not to see one of its corollary aspects, white privilege, which puts me at an advantage. White privilege is like an invisible weightless knapsack of special provisions, maps, passports, codebooks, visas, clothes, tools , and blank checks.


1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.


Die Luft der Freiheit weht

team mvp

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Re: Not looking to start an online fight but …
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2006, 03:14:08 PM »

I’m sorry, remind me of my privileges again?  Cause I know a lot of white people who are extremely underprivileged. And on the same note.. I know a lot of blacks who are very privileged.


This is something that has been discussed over and over again and many white people understand what this is.  White privilege is treatment and/or advantages that you receive solely based on the color of your skin.  One example is if you walked into a clothing store at the same time as a black person and the security guard followed the black person (very likely to happen).  The guard didn't follow you because of your white skin color.  That's white priviledge.  I understand that its hard for you to realize this becuase you've been receiving this treatment for your entire life, but please believe it exists.

ScoopNY

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Re: Not looking to start an online fight but …
« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2006, 03:14:51 PM »
Quote
I’m sorry, remind me of my privileges again?  Cause I know a lot of white people who are extremely underprivileged. And on the same note.. I know a lot of blacks who are very privileged.

I think that's something you need to discover on your own because if you think there are more privileged black people than privileged white people then we clearly live in different countries.

I'll start with the most superficial of questions. Have you ever been given a police escort ride home because they thought you robbed a liquor store? Have you ever had a security guard see you go up the escalator while they are going down and promptly jump onto the same escalator as you just to see what you're up to? Have you ever had a teacher tell you that you couldn't possibly be black because of the way you speak? That somehow you surrender your blackness because of your intelligence? Just a thought.

Quote
Are you saying we white people look at you like guinea pigs and if you’re white you can’t possibly understand what oppression is like?

Yes to the first part of your question and often yes (but not always) to the second part of the question.
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Wait: GULC, NYU.

ScoopNY

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Re: Not looking to start an online fight but …
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2006, 03:16:54 PM »
Quote
Someone once said that being white is like being right-handed. I think that's a good analogy. I don't usually think about how being right-handed is an advantage, I usually take it for granted.

Oh man I remember in college when I first saw a left-handed desk, I nearly cried, it was like someone finally acknowledged that I should have the right to take non-smudged notes in class.
In:Northwestern, Emory, Temple ($$), Wash. U($$), Michigan($$$)! Cornell
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Wait: GULC, NYU.

team mvp

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Re: Not looking to start an online fight but …
« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2006, 03:19:49 PM »
Here is my contribution to this thread. I've highlighted the ones I feel apply to this thread (which I have followed, more or less). Some of these are trivial, some I would argue aren't even really true, but none the less, I like this.

White Privilege. (written by Peggy McIntosh)

As a white person, I realized I had been taught about racism as something that puts others at a disadvantage, but had been taught not to see one of its corollary aspects, white privilege, which puts me at an advantage. White privilege is like an invisible weightless knapsack of special provisions, maps, passports, codebooks, visas, clothes, tools , and blank checks.


1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.




I remember this.  Good read.  I suggest it to all white people who are confused of this concept.

_BP_

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Re: Not looking to start an online fight but …
« Reply #78 on: February 20, 2006, 03:26:39 PM »
Thanks CoreenneNoir.
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team mvp

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Re: Not looking to start an online fight but …
« Reply #79 on: February 20, 2006, 03:31:31 PM »
You can shed the raggedy clothing, but you can NEVER shed the color of your skin.

(Unless, you're Michael Jackson lol!)

jsia