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Presidential wisdom?

L1

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Re: Presidential wisdom?
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2004, 01:56:37 PM »
That is the most absurd thing i have ever heard. Of COURSE the President of the United States is NOT supposed to BONE his own staff. I don't care if it hasn't been officially written down on a document anywhere, EVERYONE know this shouldn't be done.

Similiary, the Taco Bell manager doesn't promise not to defecate on customer orders - but everyone KNOWS he shouldn't and he'll get fired if he does.

I'm agreeing that he's not SUPPOSED to bone his staff. Whether or not he's ALLOWED to bone his staff is different. I understand earlier that you said that criminal charges shouldn't be brought against him for this since it isn't illegal. In this there is no disagreement.

I actually,  did mention one example of a Republican boning his secretary, Mayor Guiliani, but no one ever mentioned that that is just as wrong as Clinton's scandal. Neither examples should be glorified or thought of as acceptable and proper behaviour for a gov't official; however, neither cases should make either official terminate their position since they are personal affairs.

In my opinion, if his hands were so clean, he'd have let the inspectors in at the very beginning.  If he'd let them in at the ground floor, there would have been no doubt about it.  But holding off so long and then bowing to international pressure doesn't exactly square with the nice, cooperative Saddam you seem to be implying.

This is my personal theory on this matter. Basically, animals need protection in order to survive in nature. If you're a wolf, you'll want nice big fangs and a wolf pack to scare off predators at the very least. The same thing goes for nations, interchanging wolf packs for allies and big fangs for weapons that can do some damage. So what if you are a wolf/nation that has neither of these? Well...one thing you can do is spread around a rumor that you do have at least one of the two items. And since other predators won't want to find out if you really do have your fangs/weapons since most wolfs/nations have them and finding out the truth could very well mean their destruction, the other predators just believe it.

This is what I believe Saddam did. He had little money to create a stash and if the US is threatening to go to war w/ his country, by keeping up that rumor by pretending that he does have something to hide might keep the US distant and have the UN takeover. The only problem is that Bush wasn't scared of Saddam's weapons since the US will always have thousands of nukes to retaliate. It was a bad move on Saddam's part.

OK that's just what I believe and don't have much evidence to back up. Tear apart my theory and every shred of what I've just said. I welcome it and look forward to your remarks.

Re: Presidential wisdom?
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2004, 02:06:48 PM »
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Re: Presidential wisdom?
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2004, 02:15:40 PM »
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jas9999

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Re: Presidential wisdom?
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2004, 02:19:59 PM »
Just my 2 cents worth, and it's probably not even worth 2 cents

you're right, it's not. granted, clinton never should have pulled the inspectors out in '98, and i do fault him for that (i have a lot of issues with clinton's policies, but i couldn't give a *&^% about who he was sleepting with. for the record, shrub's example of professors being fired for boning students isn't right. i know several professors, at different colleges/universities, who had affairs with students, and none were fired for it.)

however, as soon as bush threatened force for non-compliance, saddam gave them complete access. another bush lie was his 'we've found the weapons' line that he delivered in poland:

You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them. http://www.whitehouse.gov/g8/interview5.html

he said that knowing full well that those mobile labs weren't for weapons. and that speech makes it sound as though finding two mobile trailers justified going to war... again, lies all around, however you want to spin them.

You might also add with Bush the allegations that he once impregnated a girl and helped her get an abortion.  I don't know if that's true or not.  It could be partisan smear and hearsay; I've only heard it mumbled in left-wing circles and seen no evidence, so I think it might be a rumor someone started that kept circulating.

it was an allegation made by larry flynt. for those who don't remember, this is the same larry flynt who broke (true) sex scandals about bob livingston, bob barr, dan burton, henry hyde and newt gingrich. flynt says he has signed affidavits from four friends of the woman who say that bush paid for her abortion after impregnating her.

L1

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Re: Presidential wisdom?
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2004, 02:23:19 PM »
There was a professor that liked me and asked me out during the time I was enrolled in his class. I said no. Even if I had said yes they couldn't fire him but only reprimand him.

jrhc1210

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Re: Presidential wisdom?
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2004, 02:33:21 PM »
I'm a little late to this thread, and this is slightly OT, but.... I was just thinking today about the focus on military records with Kerry and Bush--Kerry's three purple hearts, Bush's "questionable" record in the Air National Guard. Republicans now are screaming that Kerry's service doesn't matter, etc etc, while democrats hold up his purple hearts (that he once burned, or threatened to) as badges of honor. Meanwhile, these same Republicans were screaming to high heaven about Clinton's draft-dodging a decade ago, while these same Dems were saying that Clinton's actions didn't matter, in fact, he was right to avoid such an unjust war. The hypocrisy on both sides is amazing, isn't it?



As for the Clinton/Lewinsky matter, I don't really want to touch this with a 10 foot pole. However, I have always thought that if he were president of a Fortune 500 company and she were his intern there, he and the company would've been sued for millions for sexual harassment and he would've been tossed out on his ass. There had been some big sex harassment settlements in similiar cases before Clinton got caught with his pants down; after feminist groups supported Bill, those suits went away.

dta

Re: Presidential wisdom?
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2004, 02:37:50 PM »
I actually,  did mention one example of a Republican boning his secretary, Mayor Guiliani, but no one ever mentioned that that is just as wrong as Clinton's scandal. Neither examples should be glorified or thought of as acceptable and proper behaviour for a gov't official; however, neither cases should make either official terminate their position since they are personal affairs.

No - they are not personal affairs. You bone your staff you thereby make it EVERYBODY'S business. If Giuliani did it, he should have been fired for it.

My god - it's amazing. It's as if people think we're asking some great sacrifice of our leaders. As if we're asking that they donate 90% of their income to charity or donate time to charitable causes. Think about it folks - we're just asking that they not bone their staffers. We're not even asking them to remain faithful to their wives - have fun and cheat all you want. Just don't bone the staffers.

It's amazing that so many here seem to consider this such an outrageously high bar that our leaders could never practically meet. I've managed people for the last 7 years. It's really not that difficult to keep from screwing your staff.

dta

Re: Presidential wisdom?
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2004, 02:42:45 PM »
As for the Clinton/Lewinsky matter, I don't really want to touch this with a 10 foot pole. However, I have always thought that if he were president of a Fortune 500 company and she were his intern there, he and the company would've been sued for millions for sexual harassment and he would've been tossed out on his ass. There had been some big sex harassment settlements in similiar cases before Clinton got caught with his pants down; after feminist groups supported Bill, those suits went away.

Exactly. The feminists have been the WORST hypocrites in their support of Clinton. Basically, their attitude is to go ahead and throw the old guy a few pieces of tender female meat. Let the guy have his way w/ a few girls. Let him do stuff to his female staff they would NEVER let a Republican get away with. But since Clinton votes in ways that the feminists like, they'll allow him his own personal little dungeon of staffer sex as long as he keeps voting the way they want him to.

Though I consider myself a feminist, the whole Clinton episode shows that feminist political activists are just like all others related in politics - they'll sacrifice what they supposedly believe in to get a vote on some bill they want. Clinton wants some more tender female meat? Well by all means, send him another cute staffer to feed on, we've got a new feminist bill coming down the pipe we want him to sign.

L1

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Re: Presidential wisdom?
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2004, 03:22:28 PM »
Just don't bone the staffers.

Dude, you seem overly protective of the staffers. Were you working somewhere and a co-worker began dating your boss and got a promotion? JK. Take a deep breath it'll be okay.

And zap, thanks for saying its a good theory.

jgruber

Re: Presidential wisdom?
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2004, 05:04:48 PM »
ZAP, your arguments are full of excuses for Bush.  It was a long time ago.  He didn't know he was giving false information.  It's not his fault because his underlings did bad things; he can't watch everyone.

The overall message is that the president is incompetent.  He can't manage the government that he's supposed to manage.

Why won't Bush or his supporters take responsibility?