Law School Discussion

I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?

Re: I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2006, 05:05:40 PM »
Maybe you didn't hear me: OP CAN'T claim it- I look forward to hearing how the bar association looks on your fraud.

Have you ever bothered to read the race questions?  They say "How do you wish to identify yourself?"

There is no fraud no matter what you claim.

This is not true. If you identify as Hispanic yet your ancestors are from Germany/England you commited fraud.  Just because the question asks how you wish to identify yourself does not mean you can make stuff up. It is true then Anyone can choose to identify themselves as other. Do law schools investigate these claims?  Who Knows. But the ABA might in the future.

pcv

Re: I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2006, 07:04:13 PM »
No, you haven't.  No matter how much you (and several other apparently) want this to be true, it simply isn't.  Anyone can choose to identify themselves however they want.  The ABA will not investigate this, as the questions are deliberately left open ended.


I would like to pose the following question to the dean of admissions at the top 50 schools, the bar examiners of the 50 states, and the head of the ABA:

"I'm a rich preppy kid who loves gansta rap and I act like I'm ghetto.  (By the way, the only reason I'm going to law school is because my parents are lawyers and I just spent the last 4 years goofing off and drinking, so I have no direction, so I guess I might as well go to law school as the default option.)  My numbers are not good enough for XYZ Law school if I mark down that I'm white.  Because I identify with African-American popular culture, can I claim therefore that I am black to take advantage of affirmative action.  If not, can I claim that I am Native American because when I was growing up, my favorite professional wrestler was Tatanka.  I also once played a Native American in my 3rd grade Thanksgiving play.  From my understanding, I can do so because the race question is left deliberately open-ended."

What do you think would be the answer I would get from these 101 people?


Re: I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2006, 07:06:36 PM »
If the ABA were to call into question your ethnicity, they would risk facing a huge number of lawsuits, and lawyers by nature tend to be risk averse.  

Still, it's unethical to attempt to gain some advantage through lying.  

Re: I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2006, 07:09:08 PM »
 >:(

pcv

Re: I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2006, 07:23:24 PM »
they would risk facing a huge number of lawsuits, and lawyers by nature tend to be risk averse.    

If lawyers were so risk adverse, and they only took cases that were locks, there wouldn't be so many frivolous lawsuits in our court systems. 

Re: I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2006, 08:39:46 AM »
I can't find the link right now (I'm at work and shouldn't be checking LSD either :) ) but someone should find the example of BigTex from last year's admissions pool. He was an LSD member who claimed Hispanic because his step-dad was Mexican (though he was not biologically related). BigTex was somehow found out for deceiving/misleading law schools on the assignment of ethnicity, and the school who found out called every school he got into and turned him in for fraud, if I remember correctly. He very nearly avoided having his admissions rescinded.

One more note on the Native American ethnicity dilemma: the only qualifying documents currently used to identify tribal affiliation and ethnicity by the US gov't right now are tribal rosters and accompanying US census records taken on reservations. If for some reason your family "voted with their feet" and happened to be unaffiliated with the tribe at the time of census, you have absolutely no leg to stand on. If you really want the minority status (and have no ethics whatsoever), just identify yourself as black: more than 50% of Americans whose families have lived in the US since the Civil War have  African ancestry.

PS- I am in no way actually advocating checking the African ancestry box on these premises, but it's more likely that this is true than the Native American claims.

jnc18

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Re: I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2006, 09:08:12 AM »
What if you're a rich black kid?  Is it unethical to take the 10 free LSAT points and run while a poor white kid goes without, or is it the "legacy of slavery"?

AA will never work.  Period.

Great argument.  And really relevant too!  You've certainly convinced me.   ::)

Re: I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2006, 09:15:59 AM »
if you are 0% of a certain ethnicity than claiming that ethnicity is fraud but being 1/8 gives you plenty of claim as far as i'm concernced, i would definitely check the box if i was 1/8 of a urm race.  mind you, we could solve this problem by just making race a non-factor in admissions, as it should be.

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Re: I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2006, 10:37:29 AM »
From these responses I am clearly the only anthropologist who works with native americans. yes, you can claim your native american status, but there are many (many) exceptions to this rule. Let me spell them out for you, because the chances you qualify are slim, and the school WILL verify this. You need a Bureau of Indian Affairs card, which you may be eligible for. However, to be eligible varies from tribe to tribe. This variation depends on how the tribe classifies its own kinship system. Some count only those from either the matrilineal (your mother's side) or patrilineal (your father's side). And when I say your mother's side, I mean your mother's mother is the only eligible link to the tribe. No relative in this branch of your family tree? You're out of luck. If you don't have the BIA card yet, you're pretty much out of luck- this is a multi-year process to get on many tribal rosters and apply. In your specific situation, I think you are playing with fire. do you really want to explain to the bar why you claimed native american status even though you are not a tribal member? You will get eaten alive. FYI, Native Americans are the ONLY ethnic minority which requires proof for any education benefit. Why? Because you think for some reason you're a freakin cherokee princess because that's what your mama told you. The better possibility is that you are part black and your family told people they were part native american. Think I'm drinking the haterade? about half the cases my firm has gotten to prove anestry (particularly cherokee princesses have no affiliation whatsoever. I'd be ASHAMED to do what you are suggesting.

Great post.  And I'm not being sarcastic this time, this really states it as bluntly as it needs to be said.

Quote
more than 50% of Americans whose families have lived in the US since the Civil War have  African ancestry.

Really?  Do you have any sources for this?  (Not disputing it, just am curious to read about that)

As for the original topic of this discussion, see this thread:
http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,47655.0.html

Re: I'm 1/8 cherokee Indian: Does that count?
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2006, 11:58:50 AM »
As far as the African ancestry cite, here is one pop culture article which deals with the subject. http://www.upi.com/inc/view.php?StoryID=15042002-084051-5356r

I have to research where I initially found the cite (this is just one one I found on google today), but I believe it was from Biological Anthropology's journal, searchable through JSTOR. My old company used these types of stats often when people actually tried to hire us to do the archival work necessary to get them the BIA card for Native American certification, most often so they could get some material gains from the use of their "Native American" status.