Law School Discussion

hamas wins majoirty of parliamentary seats

nmb238

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Re: hamas wins majoirty of parliamentary seats
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2006, 11:26:27 AM »
I really think I would find it the height of obnoxious to insist on me being a right wing Zionist not job, based on absolutely nothing but your own lunacy, but its just so humorous to me...  if ONLY the right wing nut jobs thought and voted like me!

Anyway, as a fairly liberal Democrat who doesnt believe a word of Christian-cult propoganda, (thanks slow blues) and who also doenst believe for one second that Israel is secretly funding the men who blow up their restaurants and buses , i stand by my original post.

Your Howard Dean supporting, Anti-War Marching, Gay Rights Advocating right wing nutjob

~n

Mr. Incredible

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Re: hamas wins majoirty of parliamentary seats
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2006, 12:54:46 PM »
When Hamas isnt blowing up buses, theyre doing everything the Palestinian Authority didnt do- feeding the hungry, healing the sick. Hamas buildings are literally hopsitals on one floor and bomb factories on the next, not to mention kindergartens, supermarkets... this was an economic decision, to reject the corruption and anarchy of the last 30 years, not some fundamentalist sweep in Palestine.

That said, you cant blame Israel for saying "@#!* off" to dealing with the same people that have killed so many of their children on the way to school...

the worst part is that (again, understandably) the US and the EU and Australia, which altogether provide more than 85% of Palestinian funding (Arab governments give them absolutely nothing), are going to pull out their secular-minded dollars.
And suddenly Iran and Syria have a new cash whore in the middle east.

ever the pessimist...

~n

Hey it's the right wing nut-job and his Zionist agenda everyone!

Newsflash there nutzo, Israel created Hamas and has funded them for close to 30 years. So, you can "blame Israel" for killing their own.

http://www.upi.com/inc/view.php?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r

"The Israelis are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer."

"They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it,"

If a country funds terrorist activities in any way, it is terrorist.
- President George W. Bush


Classic.

Consider the source. UPI is owned by the Unification Church, which is a Christian cult.


Your ad hominems are showing.

So now the Christians have an axe to grind with the Israelis? I wonder why the Israelis have so many enemies? I bet I can guess. But I'd like to hear more details when you have time.

Anyway, I have considered the source and it's a nice departure from the Zionist controlled ABC, CBS, NBC, Time/Warner, Fox etc., etc., etc. in which facts like these never see the light of day.

Stop drinking the Kool-aid, Haterade, etc., etc., etc.


Slow Blues

Re: hamas wins majoirty of parliamentary seats
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2006, 01:08:11 PM »
LOL

rhombot

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Re: hamas wins majoirty of parliamentary seats
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2006, 01:19:50 PM »
i've been doing anti-zionist work for years, and until now i don't think i've heard anyone challenge the claim that israel supported hamas as an alternative to the PLO. the claim i've heard, though, was that this took place in the late '80's during the first intifada. hamas per se didn't exist until 1987, although it emerged from movements that did exist in the late '70's. the specific claim i've heard is that israel used to bus hamasniks around in the late '80's, dropping them off at PLO-supported demonstrations where they would pick fights with secularists. it doesn't sound like something that modern-day hamas would do, but they may have been very different back then.

nonetheless, the sources cited by the UPI story in support of the claim are all anonymous. two named officials are quoted, but neither of them asserts the claim - they're only reacting to it. i don't know any good sources that support the story. so while it's perfectly plausible, i don't take it to be demonstrated.

mr. incredible - i salute your awesome use of graphics.

Fidelio

Re: hamas wins majoirty of parliamentary seats
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2006, 07:47:40 PM »
When Hamas isnt blowing up buses, theyre doing everything the Palestinian Authority didnt do- feeding the hungry, healing the sick. Hamas buildings are literally hopsitals on one floor and bomb factories on the next, not to mention kindergartens, supermarkets... this was an economic decision, to reject the corruption and anarchy of the last 30 years, not some fundamentalist sweep in Palestine.

That said, you cant blame Israel for saying "@#!* off" to dealing with the same people that have killed so many of their children on the way to school...

the worst part is that (again, understandably) the US and the EU and Australia, which altogether provide more than 85% of Palestinian funding (Arab governments give them absolutely nothing), are going to pull out their secular-minded dollars.
And suddenly Iran and Syria have a new cash whore in the middle east.

ever the pessimist...

~n

Hey it's the right wing nut-job and his Zionist agenda everyone!

Newsflash there nutzo, Israel created Hamas and has funded them for close to 30 years. So, you can "blame Israel" for killing their own.

http://www.upi.com/inc/view.php?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r

"The Israelis are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer."

"They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it,"

If a country funds terrorist activities in any way, it is terrorist.
- President George W. Bush


Classic.

Consider the source. UPI is owned by the Unification Church, which is a Christian cult.


Your ad hominems are showing.

So now the Christians have an axe to grind with the Israelis? I wonder why the Israelis have so many enemies? I bet I can guess. But I'd like to hear more details when you have time.

Anyway, I have considered the source and it's a nice departure from the Zionist controlled ABC, CBS, NBC, Time/Warner, Fox etc., etc., etc. in which facts like these never see the light of day.

Stop drinking the Kool-aid, Haterade, etc., etc., etc.




ROFL

Mr. Incredible

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Re: hamas wins majoirty of parliamentary seats
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2006, 08:12:16 PM »
i've been doing anti-zionist work for years, and until now i don't think i've heard anyone challenge the claim that israel supported hamas as an alternative to the PLO.

That's because you're dealing with rational people and not right-wing crazies like nmbnuts.

the claim i've heard, though, was that this took place in the late '80's during the first intifada. hamas per se didn't exist until 1987, although it emerged from movements that did exist in the late '70's.

The roots of Israeli's political support and funding of Islamic organizations can be traced back further than 30 years and I would be willing to engage you in that discussion. But for the purpose of backing my claim in 1978 the government of then-Prime Minister Menachem Begin approved the application of Sheik Ahmad Yassin to start a "humanitarian" organization known as the Islamic Association, or Mujama whose membership eventually grew into Hamas.

the specific claim i've heard is that israel used to bus hamasniks around in the late '80's, dropping them off at PLO-supported demonstrations where they would pick fights with secularists.

Can neither confirm nor deny. Link?

nonetheless, the sources cited by the UPI story in support of the claim are all anonymous. two named officials are quoted, but neither of them asserts the claim - they're only reacting to it.

Directly from article: "Israel aided Hamas directly – the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization),' said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic [and International] Studies."

That's as much of an assertion as anyone could hope for. He's not anonymous. Check out his credentials; impeccable.

i don't know any good sources that support the story. so while it's perfectly plausible, i don't take it to be demonstrated.


Define "a good source". I could name dozens of "good sources" but I'd like to accommodate your definition of a "good source". Here are some you'd be hard pressed to reject given their expertise on the subject:

Source #1:Tony Cordesman from CSIS a.k.a. neo-conservative headquarters."Israel aided Hamas directly – the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization),'
Source #2:Larry Johnson, US State Department counter-terrorism official. Aid to Hamas may have looked clever, "but it was hardly designed to help smooth the waters,"
Source #3:Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".
Source #4:The Israeli weekly Koteret Rashit (October 1987), "The Islamic associations as well as the university had been supported and encouraged by the Israeli military authority"
Source #5: MIT Professor Noam Chomsky "the origins of Hamas lie in Israeli sponsorship of radical Islamist groups to undermine the secular Palestinian leadership."

I mean fvck,  ::) I could go on and on ad infinitum. You can lead a horse to water, etc., etc., etc.

mr. incredible - i salute your awesome use of graphics.

I salute you for knowing something about the issue before spouting off with the latest sound bytes from Fox News.


If a country funds terrorist activities in any way, it is terrorist.
- President George W. Bush


Classic

Fidelio

Re: hamas wins majoirty of parliamentary seats
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2006, 08:16:36 PM »
"I appreciate my love for Laura." —George W. Bush

rhombot

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Re: hamas wins majoirty of parliamentary seats
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2006, 10:42:26 PM »
[me:

the specific claim i've heard is that israel used to bus hamasniks around in the late '80's, dropping them off at PLO-supported demonstrations where they would pick fights with secularists.

mr. I:

Can neither confirm nor deny. Link?]

i'm not sure where this came from. it might have been norman finkelstein's "the rise and fall of palestine", which i don't have ready access to. (fantastic book, by the way, if you haven't read it.)

[me:
nonetheless, the sources cited by the UPI story in support of the claim are all anonymous. two named officials are quoted, but neither of them asserts the claim - they're only reacting to it.

mr. I:
Directly form article: "Israel aided Hamas directly – the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization),' said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic [and International] Studies." ]

you're right. somehow i missed that when i looked over the article. oops. won't do this in law school.