Law School Discussion

just curious as to why asians aren't URM

uesi

Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2006, 12:34:12 PM »
Thanks for the reply. While I do agree with most of your points, could you
please elaborate more on the "Civil Rights and Immigration" topic. Your post
should be considered as a whole so please excuse my narrow-minded reply on one
area. (mainly for benefit for those who wish to discredit arguements on the
basis of one point)

Did the existence of anti-discriminatory laws benefit Asians more than their
Black and Latino counterparts? Asians definately benefited from the existence,
practice and enforcement of these laws, but what about the other minorities? I
don't believe the difference between yellow and black skin is enough to explain
the preferential hiring of Asians over African-Americans, especially since
African-Americans as a whole possess a much greater mastery over the english
language.

As for the poor and disadvantaged Asians referred to, I had not in mind the
refugees and aided individuals, mostly the ravaged from the Vietnam war. I had
in mind the ones who left their countries looking for a better life, left due
to cutthroat competition, etc. These were the people that came here with not
more than a few dollars in their pockets, no family or government support, and
supported themselves through school. Their numbers are not so small as to be
discounted.

So regardless of an individual's past, whether their ancestors were refugees,
slaves, or just regular immigrants, would it be unreasonable to assume that the
present individual would be able to take advantage of more racially-fair
mindsets, be able to work hard, and make it on their own without having to fall
back on the "crutch" of AA.
 
 

Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2006, 07:40:28 PM »

Did the existence of anti-discriminatory laws benefit Asians more than their
Black and Latino counterparts? Asians definitely benefited from the existence,
practice and enforcement of these laws, but what about the other minorities? I
don't believe the difference between yellow and black skin is enough to explain
the preferential hiring of Asians over African-Americans, especially since
African-Americans as a whole possess a much greater mastery over the English
language.

Well, perhaps in some places there may be environments where African Americans are preferred over other minorities. In the south and the midwest, where there are not as many Asian Americans, the prejudice and discrimination is often worse for Asian Americans. In other cases, it's equally as bad for all people of color. Nevertheless, as I said in my earlier post, many of the stereotypes about Asian Americans have worked to their benefit in some ways, while African Americans and Latinos have had to battle a long  history and ferocity of many negative stereotypes. Additionally, racial prejudice tends to trump the mastery over English argument. The experiences of an Italian engineer compared to a Finnish engineer compared to a Taiwanese engineer compared to a Libyan engineer are all going to vary greatly - even if they have similar (but limited) mastery of English.


As for the poor and disadvantaged Asians referred to, I had not in mind the
refugees and aided individuals, mostly the ravaged from the Vietnam war. I had
in mind the ones who left their countries looking for a better life, left due
to cutthroat competition, etc. These were the people that came here with not
more than a few dollars in their pockets, no family or government support, and
supported themselves through school. Their numbers are not so small as to be
discounted.

True, this is definitely another group of Asian immigrants seeking a life with more opportunities. But the part certainly doesn't represent the whole, nor does it outweigh the number of other Asian immigrants faced with the circumstances that I mentioned earlier. I would still stand by the notion that the wealthy and professional Asian immigrants and amount of Asian refugees are collectively larger in number than the poor who came here without assistance. When you consider the costs and means to travel to the US, the economically disadvantaged Asians that you speak of are not as likely to come here. The refugees and aided individuals were offered a stepping stone that other minorities did not get to benefit from. This in turn provided a benefit to their children (many kids of our generation), many of whom have benefited from AA (by being low income, first to go to college, and offering cultural experiences such as being a translator for their parents).

So regardless of an individual's past, whether their ancestors were refugees,
slaves, or just regular immigrants, would it be unreasonable to assume that the
present individual would be able to take advantage of more racially-fair
mindsets, be able to work hard, and make it on their own without having to fall
back on the "crutch" of AA.

There is a lot of idealism in this point. Perhaps as our generation ages over the next 30 years and we move into the workforce, politics, and policy making, this mentality will stick. But it's still tough to say. In places like CA and NY where people are somewhat more racially tolerant, this may be more of a reality since kids our age have friends of different races, date/marry people of different races, and don't see race as so much of a big deal.

However, we also live in a country where
,

Even on an international front, people of color are facing difficulties from xenophobic behavior.

Despite your optimism, the sad reality is that even in today's world, "hard work" is just not enough....


mantis

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Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2006, 04:11:48 PM »
My very first post ever...

Interesting comments by all and even though someone mentioned this story/book in the overall thread on Minority Topics, it seems good to post here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5613964

I remember hearing the story on NPR and thinking, "Well, sure, they're interviewing all of the African American women... this doesn't apply to you because you're Asian and thus not a *real* minority."  Then I went to the website to send the link to a friend and read some of the stories.  "Then the partner left a message on my internal message system, and he was speaking gibberish, trying to sound like an Asian speaker."  Seriously!?!?  I really hope this woman has been in the legal field long enough to realize she should have saved the message, gone to her superiors and/or the EEOC...

In theory I should know better, having gone to a predominantly white school in a state that is considerably less diverse than California (what state isn't?).  Back in my undergrad days I even received a similar phone call.  Fortunately in my case I think the callers were drunken frat boys - a far cry from a partner and colleague in a law firm - but I was still pretty shocked.  Just some additional food for thought in terms of evaluating Asians as URMs.

Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2008, 02:30:28 AM »
URM status is given to those groups that are just that- under represented[/b in the legal field and law school. It is frustrating when people do not under stand this very simple distinction. According to 2006 U.S. Census estimates, asians account for approx. 4.4 percent of the population. In law school they are representedat slightly above 8 percent (11,308 of 141,031), according to ABA enrollment statistics for the 2006-2007 academic year. That is why they are not considered Under Represented Minorities.  ???

Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2008, 01:35:34 AM »
In regard to the comment made above by Mr. Mantis... your comment and link have nothing to do with the criterion by which people should determine if asians are URM... the fact is that they are OVER-represented in the legal field and law school. This is not to say that minority groups are not descriminated against...but we are talking about URMs.. I ask that you please stay on point.. we are supposed to be the future attorneys of this country.. it behooves us to be prudent, fair, and reasonable when coming to conclusions on such important issues.