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Author Topic: just curious as to why asians aren't URM  (Read 18200 times)

john83

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just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« on: January 25, 2006, 12:37:13 AM »
i was looking at some statistics, and i was wondering why the asian race is not considered an under-represented minority.

they make up only about 2% of the law profession, while making up 3.6% of the total population. while they are not as "under-represented" as a whole than other minorities, namely hispanics who make up 12.5% of the total population but have only 3.9% in law, they are still under represented as a percentage of the total population.

so what gives?

*these statistics are from the 2000 census, fyi.

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Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2006, 01:22:56 AM »
Asians are considered URM.

However, amongst minorities, Asians have made the greatest gains in terms of number of law school attendants.

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daylighthasbroken

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Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2006, 01:56:35 AM »
1) Constituencies
2) Histories of oppression
3) General social position of different minorities in the United States

john83

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Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2006, 10:29:07 AM »
asians, as a whole, dont complain about needing a hand up in society. they go out and work hard and suceed over a couple of gens. I have a feeling that i will get yelled at for that comment but its fairly true.

Before you get an influx of bad comments over this, I'll go ahead and throw my hat on your side and say I agree.  At least that's true statically as well as what I've seen in my own life.
It seems to be less actual minority status and more disadvantaged status that makes you a URM.

yeah, i wasn't expecting things to trend this direction. however, i think we are getting into stereotypes. not all asians are succeeding. while many do work hard, so do many people of other ethnicities. secondly, i don't like the premise that URM status is given based upon how much complaining a specific race does.

there is a misconception that all asians are rich, or at least succeeding financially. this, however, is not true. 9.8% of all asians live below the poverty line, while 8.2% of whites. further, URM is not based on income.

so, the disadvantaged status that blacks have stem from racism and slavery.

the disadvantaged status that native americans have is forced relocation and the taking of tribal lands by the US government.

the disadvantaged status that hispanics have--i am not sure of this, maybe someone knows.

but what about asians? japanese americans, somewhere over 110,000, where forced into internmnet camps, had their assets frozen, and their property seized. many received monetary compensation, and that was that. it wasn't until 1970 something that the government ever admitted they had done anything wrong. further, this internment of japanese americans led to racism against asians (since most racists don't know the difference between a japanese american and a korean american) among other races as the current President referred these people's ethnicities as "enemy." today, many asians still have to deal with racist attitudes toward them.

so disadvantaged status? i'm still curious as to why asians aren't URM...

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Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2006, 10:38:05 AM »
As far as what I know and what I've seen (almost completely within major universities, I can't speak much for smaller schools) Asians are traditionally not at all under-represented, and are often over-represented (compared to overall population) in undergraduate student bodies.  So perhaps the perception is that though Asians may be under-represented in law schools compared to population, that may be due to a matter of choice and/or interest than actual URM status.
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daylighthasbroken

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Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2006, 10:41:57 AM »
As far as what I know and what I've seen (almost completely within major universities, I can't speak much for smaller schools) Asians are traditionally not at all under-represented, and are often over-represented (compared to overall population) in undergraduate student bodies.  So perhaps the perception is that though Asians may be under-represented in law schools compared to population, that may be due to a matter of choice and/or interest than actual URM status.

This is, as far as I've seen, pretty true.  Also, one thing to consider when looking at "Asians" as a block of minorities is that there are vast and often stark differences in popular perceptions of, average income levels of, discrimination towards, and general education levels of Indians, Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Indonesians, Cambodians, Thais, Malaysians, Pakistanis, Hmongs, Filipinos, etc, etc, etc...

cayberr

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Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2006, 01:02:54 PM »

but what about asians? japanese americans, somewhere over 110,000, where forced into internmnet camps, had their assets frozen, and their property seized. many received monetary compensation, and that was that. it wasn't until 1970 something that the government ever admitted they had done anything wrong. further, this internment of japanese americans led to racism against asians (since most racists don't know the difference between a japanese american and a korean american) among other races as the current President referred these people's ethnicities as "enemy." today, many asians still have to deal with racist attitudes toward them.

The U.S. was very anti-Chinese in the 1800s.  Look into the early Chinese experience/immigration and you'll find exclusion and abuse.  However, this is common to virtually all immigrant groups to the U.S.  Although I must say I was surprised to learn about it, considering all their success.

bass

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Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2006, 01:07:05 PM »
I thought URM was based on representation within law schools, not the legal world.  so if Asians make up 5% of the students in law school, then they aren't underrepresented against the 3% census, even if the legal profession hasn't caught up yet.  Obviously asians are underrepresented in the current practice, but that has more to do with how long theyve been here and old hiring practices and stuff.  right?

jnc18

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Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2006, 09:29:03 PM »
First you have to understand that each school has it's own admission process and criteria, so "URM status" at one place will not exactly mean the same at another school. 

But if you look at the "top 14" schools:

(Asian percentage of student body)

Yale - 12.7%
Harvard - 12%
Standford - 10.7%
Columbia - 12.9%
NYU - 9.8%
Chicago - 15.3%
Penn - 10.7%
Michigan - 10.5%
Virginia - 8.4%
Northwestern - 14.5%
Cornell - 19.1%
Duke - 8.8%
Berkeley - 19.3%
Georgetown - 9.7%

That is the exact opposite of underrepresented.

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Re: just curious as to why asians aren't URM
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2006, 09:33:26 PM »
Ditto to the last post.  This is like asking why are Jews not URMs.  The U in URM is for under-represented and Asians are definitely not underrepresented in law school.  As for law firms, that is a different story.  That is the issue of minorities, which Asians are, and so they are sought-after to boost minority employment stats for bigLaw firms.