Law School Discussion

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obamacon

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« on: January 24, 2006, 08:14:40 PM »
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Re: afirmative action -- a serious problem for black progress
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2006, 08:20:00 PM »
there is an appropriate thread for this...called Affirmative Action...

j.rosh

Re: afirmative action -- a serious problem for black progress
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2006, 09:43:31 PM »
Why is this mess always posted here?

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: afirmative action -- a serious problem for black progress
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2006, 09:45:50 PM »
Wrong thread, kid.

SkullTatt

Re: afirmative action -- a serious problem for black progress
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2006, 09:46:10 PM »
I think there might be some truth to it, but I think there are too many variables for me to be really convinced by the writer's conclusion. I read the whole thing and he's kind of saying, if you take this as true, and this as true, and this as true, and this as true... then this is true.

In the end I don't see why people argue about this subject so much. What's the plan, push all the black people out of top 20 schools? That's doesn't sound too appealing.

Ed

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Re: afirmative action -- a serious problem for black progress
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2006, 10:25:25 PM »
I concur with Blk. Request a moderator to move this to AA. Heck, I might even follow it over there in order to match wits with some of the anti-AA scholars who expertly educate the masses there. But, I make you no promises.

And, I think it's a bit inappropriate to request an opinion on this article, in such an open-ended way, via LSD. A decent response to the open-ended "What's your opinion?" question would require a scholarly paper. And, there are plenty of decent, yet incomplete in my opinion, responses to the Sander paper out there.

My short answer is NOPE to race-blind admissions. And, I might offer up a detailed counterattack when I get to law school, if I can find the time to write it and if I can convince a few professors I admire to supervise the development of my arguments in response to this entire ideological framework. The counter I have in mind would take me near a year to research and write, so it will probably never make it to the top of my list. I'm not going to law school to become an AA iconoclast.

Something I can give you in an LSD snippet: I think all T20 law schools should admit three times as many Blacks as they do now and hire three times as many Black professors and administrators. That would counter the apparent negative impact of the underpreparation or the lack of social comfort for Blacks at top schools phenomena that Sander's analyses seem to pick out. Drastically increasing the number of Black students would result in more Black student support for one another, more Black student social and cultural comfort, more Black-focused peer-to-peer academic assistance, and higher Black achievement during and after law school. The top schools don't need to consider implementing a strategy based on an ideological framework that would result in fewer Blacks at their schools. They need a plan that would result in them educating many, many more Blacks each year. Make those T20 law schools Blacker! I call that my "strength in numbers" theory.

Race-blind admissions could be used to keep Blacks out of the power schools and the power networks that those schools plug their graduates into. We must continue say NOPE to that idea.

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: afirmative action -- a serious problem for black progress
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2006, 07:50:05 AM »
Objection.  12(b)(1) lack of jurisdiction over the subject matter, and a BIG 12(b)(3) improper venue,

Max, please don't respond to the subject matter of this post here for obvious reasons

OP - please delete this thread from the Black Law School Discussion thread and kindly move it to the Affirmative Action thread where it belongs

petitschoque

Re: afirmative action -- a serious problem for black progress
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2006, 02:02:46 PM »
I think many factors other than affirmative action that can account for why blacks seem to have a harder time in prestigious law schools are being ignored.

How much of a role does social fit play?

Do those who feel out of synch with the cultural climate of an institution underperform?

Do black law students have greater difficulty establishing rapport with their professors?

What proportion of law students partipate in study groups? Are black students more or less likely to do so? Does participation in study groups enhance or decrease academic performance?

How objective are grading policies at law schools? Could the (conscious or subconscious) perception of black students as affirmative action admits with lower potential affect professors' grading?

How much parental support do black students receive? Black students tend to come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds with less educated parents, does this affect their ability to do well?

Are black students more likely to be welcomed by their peers, supported by the school, and encouraged by lower ranked schools than by higher ranked schools?

Why in the hell haven't these questions been tackled with as much energy as affirmative action?

I don't see any real causality in the study posted. I see data that is interpreted to fit an agenda while plausible counter-arguments and contributing factors are ignored.