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Author Topic: New WMD evidence may be surfacing...  (Read 2875 times)

jas9999

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Re: New WMD evidence may be surfacing...
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2004, 05:23:08 PM »
I've heard reports of this.  I've heard them denied.  I'm keeping an open mind, but the 9/11 commission didn't say this was the case.  It's a fair, bipartisan commission.  Even John McCain's on it, and he's Washington's premiere free-thinking maverick.  It's not like the commission is stacked with Republicans who just want to win the November election.

The commission only officially reports what was UNANIMOUSLY agreed upon. No, it's not stacked with Republicans, but if they don't want something published, it doesn't get published. Plain and simple. Same with Democracts. Unless there is absolute unanimity between the panel, it doesn't make it into the report. What do we call that? a WHITEWASH.

John McCain isn't on the 9/11 commission. And he's NOT a free thinker. I'm from Arizona. I know plenty about Johm McCain, I've met John McCain, and I can tell you that he's little more than an opportunistic bastard. The degree to which he's rehabilitated his reputation after the S&L scandal is remarkable, but that has more to do with press corps amnesia than any change of heart. But his record is conservative toe-the-line Republican to the core. Don't be fooled by his preaching of campaign finance reform. That's just his cover to escape his past, where he helped bilk the taxpayers of this nation out of billions of dollars in order to help his friend Charles Keating.

jas9999

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Re: New WMD evidence may be surfacing...
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2004, 05:28:57 PM »
But you can never be too sure in a post 9/11 world, and I wouldn't want the responsibility falling on my shoulders as president if they DID collaborate.  Remember that sometimes people don't have to like each other to work against a common enemy.  That could conceivably be the case with Saddam.

Hardly. I again refer you to Robert Baer's book, where he thoroughly documents the ties between Al-Quaida and IraN, not IraQ, going well back into the 90's (funny how the rest of the world seems to just be hearing about that this week). Hussein - a secular dictator in the mold of Stalin - and IraQ fought a nasty decade long war against IraN, and would be loath to provide assistance and weaponry to Al-Quaida, whose ideology matches that of the Mullahs of IraN - a theocracic ruling party whose goals include getting rid of Hussein and the secular Baathist state. Yes, two people or groups who don't necessarily like each other can work together, but that theory doesn't hold together when those who are also sworn enemies. Especially when IraQ and America were allies a little over a decade ago in the push to contain IraN's fundamentalist influence in the Middle East.

buster

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Re: New WMD evidence may be surfacing...
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2004, 08:46:45 AM »
ZAP, I think you're referring to the Senate Intelligence Committee report, not the 9/11 Commission report. Anyway, in producing the Senate report there was an explicit agreement to not address the administration's own gathering and use of Iraq intelligence until later.

"but that ignores the way the administration pressured the cia to give them the evidence they wanted." - jas9999

"2. There were many reports during the lead-up to the war suggesting that the CIA was under pressure to come up with exactly the faulty intelligence that they came up with. Note that the topic of the use of intelligence by the administration was deliberately left for another report not to be released until after the election." - Buster

I've heard reports of this.  I've heard them denied.  I'm keeping an open mind, but the 9/11 commission didn't say this was the case.  It's a fair, bipartisan commission.  Even John McCain's on it, and he's Washington's premiere free-thinking maverick.  It's not like the commission is stacked with Republicans who just want to win the November election.

Fair enough, although I think Gore would have proceeded differently even based on the same intelligence. My point, though, is that it's not at all clear that Gore would have gotten the same intelligence.

But Al Gore could have just as easily looked at the same intelligence and come to the same conclusion.

The ZAPINATOR

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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2004, 11:47:52 AM »
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buster

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Re: New WMD evidence may be surfacing...
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2004, 12:11:08 PM »
Buster, are you telling me that you're going to get a committee to ever come to a unianimous conclusion on anything?  It's not whitewash, it's the nature of the committee system.  I think partisan politics were kept out of the commissions that have been studying all this, although I haven't been following the whole thing very closely, so I could be wrong.  But in my experience with committees, it's hardly fair to say they whitewash anything just because they have to come to a conclusion they can all agree on.  It's only whitewash if there's something to cover up.  If there was something to cover up they'd have found it, and if there was an attempt to whitewash something the Democrats on the commission would have gone to the press and let it be known that there was shady business going on.  That hasn't happened.  Everyone on the commission seems satisfied with the results of the commission's inquiry.

That's true as far as it goes, but I think you're missing my point. Prior to the beginning of the commission's work, the members disagreed about the scope of the inquiry. The compromise reached was that the inquiry would focus on the work of the intelligence community, leaving aside the question of the role of the administration for a later date. I'm not saying that the report was a whitewash, I'm saying that it had a deliberately narrow focus.

As for Democrats on the commission expressing their concerns about the issues I'm raising, with all due respect you're just wrong. Democratic Senators Jay Rockefeller, male private part Durbin and Carl Levin have been outspoken on this point:

"But although he approved the report, Rockefeller said it fails to explain fully the pressures on the intelligence community 'when the most senior officials in the Bush administration had already forcefully and repeatedly stated their conclusions publicly.'"
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/09/senate.intelligence/

"In minority views published along with the report, Democrats on the committee said that Richard Kerr, a former high-ranking CIA official asked by the agency to examine the Iraq intelligence lapses, told investigators that repeated White House requests for information linking Iraq to the al-Qaeda terrorist network created 'significant pressure on the Intelligence community.' The CIA's ombudsman, who was not identified in the report, 'said he felt the 'hammering' by the Bush administration on Iraq intelligence was harder than he had previously witnessed in his 32-year career,' Sens. Jay Rockefeller, Carl Levin, and male private part Durbin, all Democrats, wrote in their minority views."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-11-iraq-intelligence_x.htm

Here's Durbin's column that ran in the WaPo:
http://www.senate.gov/~durbin/sitepages/SSCI_report.htm

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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2004, 12:44:28 PM »
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buster

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Re: New WMD evidence may be surfacing...
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2004, 12:45:59 PM »
HTH

Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of all that. 

ZAP

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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2004, 12:56:13 PM »
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neverends

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Re: New WMD evidence may be surfacing...
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2004, 01:47:28 PM »
Would it really be that suprising to find WMD's in Iraq?

Firstly we sold WMD's to Iraq.

And secondly we've had free reigne all over the country for over a year. I have heard reports of soldiers being flown to germany with the "flu" in full isolation. The last thing one of these soldiers said to his family is that he was going out on a "hauling" mission. I've never heard of a flu that liquifies your organs, but I hope we all can keep an open mind.
it's coming...

buster

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Re: New WMD evidence may be surfacing...
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2004, 02:33:49 PM »
ZAP, the committee was not looking for any evidence of that. I did not find any carrots today. Is that because carrots do not exist or because I was not looking for one?

neverends, I would not be shocked if WMDs are found, although I would be shocked if large stockpiles of such weapons are found.