Law School Discussion

Poll

Which of these three schools would you choose?

Chicago
90 (31.7%)
Columbia
134 (47.2%)
New York University
60 (21.1%)

Total Members Voted: 251

Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU

Hank Rearden

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Re: Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU
« Reply #150 on: February 05, 2007, 01:35:27 PM »
Look at all this useful information! What is this, xoxo?


A truly TTT post.  Feminism is not prestigious.  IBanking pwns you.  HTFH. 

Please don't forget WGWAG

(Although there's a video of girls making out in the side bar ad for this thread. I don't think xoxo has ever done anything as prestigious for me...)


My ad is only for "essayedge.com."

 :(

Re: Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU
« Reply #151 on: February 05, 2007, 02:29:18 PM »
Ok, I did the #'s for Chicago.

What I've done is added in numbers for Kirkland and for Chicago offices for other firms, where reported. This probably understates U of Chicago slightly, since the data wasn't there for all firms. However, since being in Chicago is probably slightly less desirable than NYC for career purposes, I think that it's only going to be a slight subjective bump for Chicago, maybe ahead of Columbia by a couple of points. Use your judgement.

Firm   H   Co   N   Ch
Wachtell   6   4   2   1
Cravath   17   18   15   6
S&C   9   10   6   3
Skadden   15   14   6   12
Davis Polk   29   13   12   3
STB   16   22   19   1
Latham   19   14   15   12
Cleary   5   20   22   1
Weil   9   9   3   2
Kirkland   10   5   13   10
Debevoise   16   20   16   4
SUM   171   149   129   55
Class Size   550   410   450   200
Public Interest   21   13   43   8
Gov'm'nt   16   14   16   8
Academia   4   3   1   0
Effective Class   509   380   390   184
% in top 10   31   39   33   30
# of Clerks   152   55   56   39
% in top firms or clerking   63   54   47   51

Schruted

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Re: Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU
« Reply #152 on: February 05, 2007, 04:14:34 PM »
Thanks. If nothing else, you've shown that CCN is indeed a pretty tight group. Seems like choosing X over Y over Z solely based on reputation even if you love all the other aspects of Z is not wise.

Re: Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU
« Reply #153 on: February 05, 2007, 04:49:18 PM »
Ok folks, here ya go. When you speak of me, speak well.

Plot of the data:http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=placementplotug9.jpg

Firm   Y   H   Co   Ch   N   P   Mi
Wachtell   5   6   4   1   2   2   0
Cravath   14   17   18   6   15   7   2
S&C   6   9   10   3   6   8   1
Skadden   2   15   14   12   6   5   6
Davis Polk   17   29   13   3   12   3   5
STB   5   16   22   1   19   9   5
Latham   3   19   14   12   15   4   8
Cleary   5   5   20   1   22   2   1
Weil   1   9   9   2   3   1   4
Kirkland   0   10   5   10   13   0   5
Debevoise   9   16   20   4   16   3   5
SUM   87   171   149   55   129   44   42
Class Size   183   550   410   200   450   250   380
Public Interest   8   21   13   8   43   6   18
Gov'm'nt   6   16   14   8   16   3   13
Academia   4   4   3   0   1   2   1
Effective Class   165   509   380   184   390   239   348
% in top 10   48   31   39   30   33   18   12
# of Clerks   76   152   55   39   56   41   52
% in top firms or clerking   99   63   54   51   47   36   27

FunkyzeitmitBruno

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Re: Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU
« Reply #154 on: February 05, 2007, 06:23:52 PM »
Ok folks, here ya go. When you speak of me, speak well.

Plot of the data:http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=placementplotug9.jpg

Firm   Y   H   Co   Ch   N   P   Mi
Wachtell   5   6   4   1   2   2   0
Cravath   14   17   18   6   15   7   2
S&C   6   9   10   3   6   8   1
Skadden   2   15   14   12   6   5   6
Davis Polk   17   29   13   3   12   3   5
STB   5   16   22   1   19   9   5
Latham   3   19   14   12   15   4   8
Cleary   5   5   20   1   22   2   1
Weil   1   9   9   2   3   1   4
Kirkland   0   10   5   10   13   0   5
Debevoise   9   16   20   4   16   3   5
SUM   87   171   149   55   129   44   42
Class Size   183   550   410   200   450   250   380
Public Interest   8   21   13   8   43   6   18
Gov'm'nt   6   16   14   8   16   3   13
Academia   4   4   3   0   1   2   1
Effective Class   165   509   380   184   390   239   348
% in top 10   48   31   39   30   33   18   12
# of Clerks   76   152   55   39   56   41   52
% in top firms or clerking   99   63   54   51   47   36   27

lol, Yale pwns all, end of story

And yeah, CCN is a tight group, picking based on prestige wouldn't be a wise choice.

I'd like to see Stanford added to the list, but wons has worked pretty hard already...

Steve.jd

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Re: Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU
« Reply #155 on: February 05, 2007, 06:28:12 PM »
Ok folks, here ya go. When you speak of me, speak well.

Plot of the data:http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=placementplotug9.jpg

Firm   Y   H   Co   Ch   N   P   Mi
Wachtell   5   6   4   1   2   2   0
Cravath   14   17   18   6   15   7   2
S&C   6   9   10   3   6   8   1
Skadden   2   15   14   12   6   5   6
Davis Polk   17   29   13   3   12   3   5
STB   5   16   22   1   19   9   5
Latham   3   19   14   12   15   4   8
Cleary   5   5   20   1   22   2   1
Weil   1   9   9   2   3   1   4
Kirkland   0   10   5   10   13   0   5
Debevoise   9   16   20   4   16   3   5
SUM   87   171   149   55   129   44   42
Class Size   183   550   410   200   450   250   380
Public Interest   8   21   13   8   43   6   18
Gov'm'nt   6   16   14   8   16   3   13
Academia   4   4   3   0   1   2   1
Effective Class   165   509   380   184   390   239   348
% in top 10   48   31   39   30   33   18   12
# of Clerks   76   152   55   39   56   41   52
% in top firms or clerking   99   63   54   51   47   36   27

Y's sum should be 67 not 87

Re: Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU
« Reply #156 on: February 05, 2007, 06:31:44 PM »
Good catch; somehow a "+20" snuck in after my SUM function....it appears it was in the Harvard column too, and when I copied that cell into Yale's column, the mistake propagated. Here's a final, updated chart, that includes Stanford and includes the CA offices of firms that were reported on lawfirmaddict. Please note that lawfirm addict does not have data for the CA offices of all of the top firms, so this probably underestimates Stanford.

Now I can 'round Yale's class size like I did with all other schools:

Firm   Y   H   S   Co   Ch   N   P   Mi   
Wac   5   6   1   4   1   2   2   0   
Cra   14   17   4   18   6   15   7   2   
S&C   6   9   2   10   3   6   8   1   
Ska   2   18   4   15   12   6   7   7   
DaP   17   30   7   14   4   13   3   5   
STB   5   16   3   22   1   19   9   5   
Lath   3   19   5   17   13   16   5   8   
Cle   5   5   4   20   1   22   2   1   
Weil   1   9   2   9   2   3   1   4   
Kir   0   12   6   5   10   15   0   10   
Deb   9   16   2   20   4   16   3   5   
SUM   67   157   40   154   57   133   47   48   
Size   180   550   180   410   200   450   250   380   
PI   8   21   7   13   8   43   6   18   
Gov   6   16   4   14   8   16   3   13   
Aca   4   4   1   3   0   1   2   1   
Ef.Size   162   509   168   380   184   390   239   348   
%top10   37   29   22   41   31   34   20   14   
#Clerks   76   152   51   55   39   56   41   52   
%top   88   61   54   55   52   48   37   29   

Since I can't get the table tags to work, and it seems pre tags dont work, I'll make a clear list:

Yale:88%
Harvard:61%
Stanford:54%
Columbia:55%
Chicago: 52%
NYU:48%
Penn:37%
Michigan:29%

Steve.jd

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Re: Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU
« Reply #157 on: February 05, 2007, 06:45:30 PM »
Good catch; somehow a "+20" snuck in after my SUM function.

Now I can 'round Yale's class size like I did with all other schools:

Firm   Y   H   Co   Ch   N   P   Mi
Wachtell   5   6   4   1   2   2   0
Cravath   14   17   18   6   15   7   2
S&C   6   9   10   3   6   8   1
Skadden   2   15   14   12   6   5   6
Davis Polk   17   29   13   3   12   3   5
STB   5   16   22   1   19   9   5
Latham   3   19   14   12   15   4   8
Cleary   5   5   20   1   22   2   1
Weil   1   9   9   2   3   1   4
Kirkland   0   10   5   10   13   0   5
Debevoise   9   16   20   4   16   3   5
SUM   67   171   149   55   129   44   42
Class Size   180   550   410   200   450   250   380
Public Interest   8   21   13   8   43   6   18
Gov'm'nt   6   16   14   8   16   3   13
Academia   4   4   3   0   1   2   1
Effective Class   162   509   380   184   390   239   348
% in top 10   37   31   39   30   33   18   12
# of Clerks   76   152   55   39   56   41   52
% in top firms or clerking   88   63   54   51   47   36   27


One thing to take into account - if it can be done - is the number of people going into MC/IB etc.  I know that we get a fair number who do that and it distorts the numbers somewhat

Re: Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU
« Reply #158 on: February 05, 2007, 06:53:17 PM »

One thing to take into account - if it can be done - is the number of people going into MC/IB etc.  I know that we get a fair number who do that and it distorts the numbers somewhat

The differences b/w the schools in terms of going into "business and industry" as reported on the LSAC/ABA website are 2% or less. My buddy at Harvard, a 3L, said that a large proportion of the people who take those jobs couldn't get the jobs at the firms they wanted....so I decided to treat them as "not-hired". If you treated them as "hired", the change would be minor...

%reported by ABA as going into "business and industry":
Harvard: 3.4%
NYU:3.4%
Chicago:2.2%
Columbia:1.7%

Steve.jd

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Re: Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU
« Reply #159 on: February 05, 2007, 07:03:38 PM »

One thing to take into account - if it can be done - is the number of people going into MC/IB etc.  I know that we get a fair number who do that and it distorts the numbers somewhat

The differences b/w the schools in terms of going into "business and industry" as reported on the LSAC/ABA website are 2% or less. My buddy at Harvard, a 3L, said that a large proportion of the people who take those jobs couldn't get the jobs at the firms they wanted....so I decided to treat them as "not-hired". If you treated them as "hired", the change would be minor...

%reported by ABA as going into "business and industry":
Harvard: 3.4%
NYU:3.4%
Chicago:2.2%
Columbia:1.7%


Well the reason I mentioned them is because I predict that Yale has a very low precentage of these; also, just like you only use the top 10 or so firms its inaccurate to just use the general category of "business and industry" - I mean there is a difference between Goldman Sachs/McKinsey and Citizens Savings Bank