Law School Discussion

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Freak

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Re: What are your thoughts on Government Wiretaps?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2005, 02:19:22 PM »
What case though? 


Edit:

Katz v. U.S.
389 U.S. 347, 356
88 S.Ct. 507, 514
U.S.Cal. 1967.



This case has not been overruled by statute 18 U.S.C.A. 2516 (but the statute gives more protection and there are some bills pending in the 109th Congress to change the statute), however, Katz's basic 4th amendment analysis seems to be still intact. This analysis says that wiretapping w/o a warrant violates the 4th amendment. The only difference from a traditional warrant is that the suspect need not receive notice of the tap.

I finally give up on the other posters and do the research myself. I find the case, check that it's still good law and summarize it. Note my crim. pro. LS teacher also believes a 4th amend. violation probably occured via Katz.

Re: What are your thoughts on Government Wiretaps?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2005, 02:38:37 PM »
My thoughts?  I don't know, but I know what your thoughts are.  The police are on their way.

be10dwn

Re: What are your thoughts on Government Wiretaps?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2005, 02:45:18 PM »
In Germany, the Nazis first came for the communists, and I did not speak up, because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak up, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak up, because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I did not speak up, because I was not a Catholic. Then they came for me... and by that time, there was no one to speak up for anyone.

Freak

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Re: What are your thoughts on Government Wiretaps?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2005, 02:50:25 PM »
I've heard that before be10, who wrote that? It's a powerful quote.

Here I recognize a poster who has contributed to the debate in creative way. He lived in Germany for 4 years (from other posts) and he sets forth his viewpoint by quoting an authority. In his next post he cites the author when I ask. In the back of my mind I'm comparing him to the poster that failed to cite a source.

be10dwn

Re: What are your thoughts on Government Wiretaps?
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2005, 02:50:52 PM »
    Martin Niemoeller, Pastor,
    German Evangelical (Lutheran) Church

Freak

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Re: What are your thoughts on Government Wiretaps?
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2005, 02:54:18 PM »
Ah, I remember it was a pastor now, hopefully we'll never let that come true here.

be10dwn

Re: What are your thoughts on Government Wiretaps?
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2005, 02:56:19 PM »
slippery slope when you start to let your freedoms go

verbal

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Re: What are your thoughts on Government Wiretaps?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2005, 02:59:48 PM »
i always liked that quote. 

heres another one that kind of fits.

We can learn from history how past generations thought and acted, how they responded to the demands of their time and how they solved their problems. We can learn by analogy, not by example, for our circumstances will always be different than theirs were. The main thing history can teach us is that human actions have consequences and that certain choices, once made, cannot be undone. They foreclose the possibility of making other choices and thus they determine future events

once a government is given power to take away personal liberties in the name of protection, all is lost.

be10dwn

Re: What are your thoughts on Government Wiretaps?
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2005, 03:01:54 PM »
How about this quote, I think it gets forgotten:


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, having its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

be10dwn

Re: What are your thoughts on Government Wiretaps?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2005, 03:03:06 PM »
interestingly, I dont remember being asked if Im ok with my rights being eroded