Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Happy Birthday American Censorship  (Read 4228 times)

jgruber

  • Guest
Re: Happy Birthday American Censorship
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2004, 04:13:27 PM »
It's still censorship.  Censorship does not always prevent the speech.  Sometimes it punishes it.

The point is that they made political statements and they were punished for it.

Censored? You mean she wasn't allowed to say those things? Wait, though - she said them. Too damn bad her company got pissed.

Besides, the result is the same.  Whether to save customers or because you don't like what Whoopi said, she was censored.

There's a huge difference. If she was fired because SlimFast didn't want to lose customers, that is perfectly legitimate. Otherwise, you imply that SlimFast should just shut up and take a loss of customers to protect Whoopi's freedom of speech. Screw that - she deserved to get fired if what she said was gonna mess with their profits. Yeah, that might suck for her, but that's a risk she took when she exercised her freedom of speech. If it would have had no impact on sales and they just fired her because she was a lib and, say, all the slimfast execs are conservatives, then yeah - that would be infringing on her right to speak freely.

Additionally, in response to Lydia, the news media is so incredibly unfair and unbalanced precisely because we have freedom of speech. You can basically print whatever the hell you want, with whatever spin you want.

The ZAPINATOR

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 6380
    • MSN Messenger - N/A
    • AOL Instant Messenger - N/A
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - N/A
    • View Profile
    • N/A
Re: Happy Birthday American Censorship
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2004, 04:17:11 PM »
edit

jgruber

  • Guest
Re: Happy Birthday American Censorship
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2004, 04:22:17 PM »
I'm sure things could be much worse, but is it freedom of speech when you cannot express your opinion without punishment.

The point of my original posting was that this is not new.  We have a history of repressing speech that offends the powers that be that started over 206 years ago.

But without freedom of speech, it would be worse.

Trust me, guys.  I grew up in a former Communist nation, and there were still Communist vestiges left over.  I know what it is to have limits on your free speech... and we're sitting pretty good here in America, from what I've seen.  Not to say things are perfect, but American free speech is in pretty good shape. 

I highly doubt Dubya made a phone call to Slimfast and said "Axe Whoopi."  Minc has a point.  That's a conspiracy theory beyond belief.  What he suggested is much more highly probable.

ZAP

Minc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Birthday American Censorship
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2004, 04:22:50 PM »
Jeffjoe, I understand what you're saying. Yes, Whoopi did suffer consequences after the remarks. But what I am trying to make clear is that no one said, "Damn that Whoopi and her saying what she wants. Let's scrap her." Instead, it was more likely "She's pissing off our clients and threatening our profits. We can't have that. Next."

There is a difference in these two circumstances with a direct implication for the discussion concerning whether or not she was censored.

jgruber

  • Guest
Re: Happy Birthday American Censorship
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2004, 04:26:29 PM »
You're guessing as to why she was fired.

I doubt that Bush called slimfast or even one of his people, but we don't know that.

More likely Slimfast knew where there bread is buttered and acted.

But the result stands.  Political speech was punished.

Jeffjoe, I understand what you're saying. Yes, Whoopi did suffer consequences after the remarks. But what I am trying to make clear is that no one said, "Damn that Whoopi and her saying what she wants. Let's scrap her." Instead, it was more likely "She's pissing off our clients and threatening our profits. We can't have that. Next."

There is a difference in these two circumstances with a direct implication for the discussion concerning whether or not she was censored.

The ZAPINATOR

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 6380
    • MSN Messenger - N/A
    • AOL Instant Messenger - N/A
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - N/A
    • View Profile
    • N/A
Re: Happy Birthday American Censorship
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2004, 04:50:21 PM »
edit

Minc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Birthday American Censorship
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2004, 04:57:51 PM »
More likely Slimfast knew where there bread is buttered and acted.
Jeffjoe, I highly doubt your claim. What is with all the Bush corporate conspiracy theories, anyway? Seems to me many people just really want to find another thing to blame on Bush. Bush-hating is just so in these days.

And, just as you pointed out that I am only guessing as to why she was fired, same goes for you. But given the two guesses, which seems more plausible? Some convoluted Bush involvement, or a simple case of profit considerations as a result of customer complaints?

And yeah, the result stands. Her speech was punished. But the distinction I outlined still stands as well and I think it is an important one.

Finally, I'd like to try one more time to explain. Her political speech was not punished. Her being a moron and saying things that threatened the company was. Be realistic.

buster

  • Guest
Re: Happy Birthday American Censorship
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2004, 08:08:38 AM »
Minc and Zap, I agree that it's more likely that Whoopi was fired due to complaints from customers than as a kneejerk reaction to what she said. But jeffjoe never said, or even implied, that he thought Bush was involved, so this whole "ridiculous conspiracy theory" line of reasoning is rather silly.

jgruber

  • Guest
Re: Happy Birthday American Censorship
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2004, 09:09:58 AM »
Bush conspiracy?  We don't need no stinking conspiracy.

Seriously, I am not suggesting that Bush and the boys acted to fire Whoopi.

I suspect it was Slimfast's initiative all the way.

More likely Slimfast knew where there bread is buttered and acted.
Jeffjoe, I highly doubt your claim. What is with all the Bush corporate conspiracy theories, anyway? Seems to me many people just really want to find another thing to blame on Bush. Bush-hating is just so in these days.

And, just as you pointed out that I am only guessing as to why she was fired, same goes for you. But given the two guesses, which seems more plausible? Some convoluted Bush involvement, or a simple case of profit considerations as a result of customer complaints?

And yeah, the result stands. Her speech was punished. But the distinction I outlined still stands as well and I think it is an important one.

Finally, I'd like to try one more time to explain. Her political speech was not punished. Her being a moron and saying things that threatened the company was. Be realistic.

Section Eight

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 257
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Happy Birthday American Censorship
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2004, 09:17:27 AM »
Bush conspiracy?  We don't need no stinking conspiracy.

Seriously, I am not suggesting that Bush and the boys acted to fire Whoopi.

I suspect it was Slimfast's initiative all the way.

More likely Slimfast knew where there bread is buttered and acted.
Jeffjoe, I highly doubt your claim. What is with all the Bush corporate conspiracy theories, anyway? Seems to me many people just really want to find another thing to blame on Bush. Bush-hating is just so in these days.

And, just as you pointed out that I am only guessing as to why she was fired, same goes for you. But given the two guesses, which seems more plausible? Some convoluted Bush involvement, or a simple case of profit considerations as a result of customer complaints?

And yeah, the result stands. Her speech was punished. But the distinction I outlined still stands as well and I think it is an important one.

Finally, I'd like to try one more time to explain. Her political speech was not punished. Her being a moron and saying things that threatened the company was. Be realistic.

Yes, however, correct me if I am wrong but I got the image you were thinking it was politically driven (Slimfast afraid of a political backlash) and not economically driven (loss of clients).