Law School Discussion

Tookie Smith

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Tookie Smith
« on: December 08, 2005, 11:41:25 AM »
tookie smith, nobel peace prize nominee, is awaiting clemency from the state of california's governor...

now that tookie is fighting for his life aye believe that he truly hears the overwhelming silence or screams when he was the executioner...

is murdering just four people a chronic murderer?
is murdering four people mass murder?

the death penalty is not a penalty...it is retribution...but it is colorist genocide as well as not a penalty at all...it is not a sentance but a period.

an overhaul of the death penalty is necessary...starting with the name...then the application.

it is a "terminal retribution" and it should be automatically applied to chronic and mass murderers and chronic rapists.

the tookie smith case is, to say the least, a little light.
this guy should not be executed but nor should he be even thought about when one mentions nobel peace prize...he committed a crime and he should do the time...that is a penalty...he is just a criminal who has penance to do...period.

my sadness is that albatrosses have attached their names to the case...susan surandon and tim robbins...bad karma and bad luck.

and my man, jamie fox should "stick to acting"...nothing worse than a good actor talkin' politics...my respect is gone...he is fronting some vain facade like sean penn.

nothing worse than a great dentist trying to fix a plumbing problem.

tookie should just remain in his cell...continue writing letters...and continue to think about back in the day when he was an executioner.
...and completly forget the "peace prize" pipedream.


px.o.rsta


aye know...this will be too controversial for any future lawyers to comment on...but...this is how we independents do...no sheep here...only shepherds.

maxambit

Re: Stanley Tookie Williams
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2005, 12:36:48 PM »
I grew up in the gangbangin’ 1970s and 1980s of SoCal. Tookie "Big Took" was a legend in my streets. I read Tookie's autobiography. I watched the movie.

The "cribs", later called the "crips," found themselves in the middle of a tough economic catastrophe in SoCal. Before they formed, a lot of jobs had disappeared seemingly overnight and people were left to figure out how to fend for themselves in a broken economy. Some of their children started out with small time robbing and stealing and turf protecting, but this quickly escalated to murdering and drug dealing. I do empathize with the man, his family, his friends, and his community.

However, his deeds have been judged worthy of the punishment of death. We can debate the merits of the death penalty, talk about how Tookie was a victim of socioeconomic circumstances, have a dialogue about philosophy of law and the philosophical underpinnings of the death penalty as a tool of retribution and/or deterrence, and even talk about how we may go on to become lawyers, judges, and politicians who will forge a better society with a better legal system that will be perfectly just; however, this man has been judged. I think he was judged justly.

If Tookie were my friend, my father, my brother, or my son, I would not seek to change his fate. I admire the good work he has done while inside. I think he has done his best to live a noble life. And, I think he has. He has my respect. However, on December 13, 2005, he should and he shall receive the ultimate punishment. This should sadden neither him nor the public. His punishment is deserved according to the citizens with whom he lives. And, they are the most appropriate judges.

Re: Tookie Smith
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2005, 01:18:22 PM »
I believe his name is tookie williams.

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Re: Tookie Smith
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2005, 01:29:28 PM »
I believe his name is tookie williams.

actually it is stan williams...aye prefer...NO hype..."tookie" you recognize...

"smith" is my no nonsense name.

john "tookie" smith....you obviously know who aye mean.


JamesD

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Re: Tookie Smith
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2005, 01:33:17 PM »
tookie shouldn't die.  i don't support the death penalty for him, just as i don't support the death penalty for anyone.  i'm morally opposed to it.

but even based on arguments generally used to support the death penalty - or to grant clemency - one would have to recognize that he does have a legitimate case.  he has shown remorse, demonstrated that he regrets his actions, and attempted to make ammends.  certainly, he cannot bring back the dead.  certainly, he is still a killer.  this much is true.  but he has used his celebrity in attempt to prevent other young people from turning to the streets.

deserving of the nobel peace prize he is certainly not.  deserving of clemency he most certainly is.

shaz

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Re: Tookie Smith
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2005, 01:43:58 PM »
"His punishment is deserved according to the citizens with whom he lives. And, they are the most appropriate judges."

black on black crime don't get you the chair. black man killing a white man does.

his crime was killing a 26 year old white man. don't get me wrong. if you do the crime, you do the time, just don't make it out that it's the "citizens with whom he lives" that judged him.



maxambit

Re: Stanley Tookie Williams
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2005, 03:00:30 PM »
The man's name is Stanley Tookie Williams (1953-2005). He was born December 29, 1953 in New Orleans, LA. He will be put to death December 13, 2005, fewer than two weeks before his fifty-second birthday.

The Memoir he published last year is entitled Blue Rage, Black Redemption (ISBN 0975358405). I encourage you to buy and read his book. I can think of no more powerful way to show respect for a man than to read his autobiography.

He offers a quote in the front matter of his book, after the copyright page, that reads:

To poor people, prisoners, slaves, and the
disenfranchised everywhere — through
faith and theories put into practice you
can bend the most oppressive circumstances
to your will, to make the impossible possible.


                     - Stanley Tookie Williams

(italics are his)

These are a wise man's words.

This man will be put to death next week for the "Blue Rage" part of his life. He chose to kill many people unjustly during an era when CA used the death penalty as an instrument of justice. I have little doubt that prison saved and extended his life. It gave him an opportunity to die after having lived nobly—gave him a chance to redeem himself. For this, he should be quite grateful to the citizens of CA. I doubt the streets, my streets, would have given him that chance. He has never denied that he killed several people. He has never admitted he killed those for whose deaths he was convicted and sentenced.

We all should be able to respect him for the "Black Redemption" part of his life. While, I do not support the death penalty (I think it's an ineffective tool of justice when viewed via either an ethical or economic context), I do support the authority that free Californians have to determine Tookie's fate. They chose to sentence this man to death in 1981, and, on December 13, 2005, they will choose to allow that sentence to be carried out via lethal injection.

I'm pleased the Brother received and took advantage of a chance to make amends with himself and his community before his sentence got carried out. I forgive him. I do not absolve him.

Dotson

Re: Tookie Smith
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2005, 03:09:48 PM »
I think Tookie's biggest problem in getting clemency is that he has never confessed to the crime. I am not making any judgement that he committed the crimes are not. But he has been convicted of these crimes and I think in order for Gov. Arnold to grant clemency he is going to have to belief Tookie has owned up to the crimes.  If Tookie didn't commit these crimes then I can understand him not saying he did it.  If he did do but just never admitted it, he is screwed because now if he admits to doing them it just looks opportunistic.  Personally, I am opposed to the death penalty but I don't think this case is the one to use as to make the argument.   

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Re: Tookie Smith
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2005, 03:29:52 PM »
I don't like the death penalty; I don't think anyone should get it.

The Tookie Williams story just highlights one of the larger problems with it: some people with *sexier* stories might get clemency, while other innocent people may be put to death because they lacked the drama/interest to create a media fuss.

dbgirl

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Re: Tookie Smith
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2005, 04:17:44 PM »
I'm with you on this skeeball.
I am against the death penalty in any circumstances, but I feel that people are jumping on the Tookie bandwagon. It's trendy to "save Tookie."
I would like to see Tookie live because I don't believe in the death penalty. However, I don't feel sorry for personally sorry for Tookie.