Law School Discussion

Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"

skaiserbrown

Re: Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2005, 11:04:03 AM »
i will join once i am dinged from every single t14 i apply to and am accepted by one of t20.

if i get dinged from the t20 too, i will be creating the t-schools-above-where-scott-got-in.

this could rank anywhere from the TTT to the mid second tier to the t30.

Slow Blues

Re: Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2005, 11:07:08 AM »
T20.

skaiserbrown

Re: Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2005, 11:55:11 AM »
OMG! A STRONGBAD REFERENCE!

<3 bass. CGN U!

SkullTatt

Re: Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2005, 12:04:41 PM »
T10!

You got into Stanford already ??? Congrats... damn that is early.

k180

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Re: Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2005, 12:06:36 PM »
But isn't there a sensible reason for breaking it into the T14?  I heard that these are considered national law schools (employment opportunities nation-wide) but even more importantly the T14 has not changed for a long, long time.  Schools go in and out of the T20 far too often.

I like the T14 cause it isn't just some arbitrary number (T25, T50, T100) that people picked cause it is "round."  

Re: Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2005, 12:10:13 PM »
K180 is exactly right.  It's funny to hear some people describe an arbitrary cut-off like the number 20 as more sensible than a cut-off that actually means something.  The fact is that there are only 14 schools with a national reputation.  No other schools come close in placing students all over the country.  All other factors aside, this is the most compelling reason for the T14 distinction.  "T20" is absolutely meaningless.

SkullTatt

Re: Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2005, 12:16:06 PM »
The reason T14 was picked is not really that sensible. It's based upon the same schools switching places on one magazine's (US News') ranking of law schools over the years. What it means is that those schools have consistently had the criteria needed to land them in the top 14 on that magazine's ranking system, which has some questionable features, especially when schools start "gaming" the rankings.

I think anybody who says a degree from Georgetown gives you "nation-wide" employment opportunities but a degree from Texas, UCLA, or USC does not, is a little misguided. I'm not even sure that practicing attorneys are even aware of the "T14" concept. It had to have sprung up in the last few years, since a certain amount of time was needed in order for the "T14" pattern to be established. Therefore partners who have been out of school for 10 years may not even have heard of it.

shae

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Re: Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2005, 12:17:11 PM »
I prefer T19.6

azdezza

Re: Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2005, 12:20:16 PM »
No other schools come close in placing students all over the country. 

Isn't Notre Dame (rank 24) specifically regarded for it's national reputation.  They place people everywhere...

http://www.nd.edu/~ndlaw/prospective_students/career_information/employment_report04.html


Re: Please Retire "T14," Begin Using "Top 20"
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2005, 12:30:36 PM »
The popular explanation going around this year is that EVER SINCE USNEWS STARTED RANKING LAW SCHOOLS NONE OF THE TOP FOURTEEN RANKED SCHOOLS HAVE EVER DROPPED BELOW NUMBER FOURTEEN AND NO OTHER SCHOOL HAS EVER BEEN RANKED ABOVE FOURTEEN.  This flies about as long as it takes for someone to prove it factually wrong.

Last year, I never read a post that offered this as an explanation.  It is a new justification, which isn't at all true.

As far as regional or national, there is no doubt that Georgetown is more national than UCLA, but Georgetown is more national than Virginia, Michigan, Northwestern, and a slew of others.  For that matter, Notre Dame's placement is more national than almost any school out there, certainly in the top ten as far as national placement is concerned.  What T14 actually is doing is saying "these schools are better than Georgetown, and these schools are worse."

Probably the main reason UCLA doesn't place as nationally as Northwestern and others (if in fact they don't) is that almost all new law grads work for the firm they clerk for their 2nd summer (see the percentage of students employed AT graduation, these people are accepting jobs offered during their third year after the firm gets to see them work during the 2nd year), and UCLA students, because they attend a California State school, take summer jobs in California in order to gain/maintain their in-state residence for tuition.  Without this requirement, UCLA would easily place more new law grads across the country.

There are reasons why some schools place nationally and others don't as much, but among peer schools (NW, GULC, UCLA), this isn't something to make as a dividing line between tiers of schools.