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Author Topic: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)  (Read 6259 times)

Julie Fern

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Re: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2005, 05:54:52 PM »
I think most liberals could care less about Michael Moore and Babs Streisand, let alone their hypocritical nature. I mean, is this the best the neocons have, Moore and Streisand? Please, whatever you do, don't throw in Alec Baldwin as well! That would be too much!

Moore and Streisand are side shows compared to the hypocrisy of the fundamental right wing leadership.

Remember, according to Bush and every high ranking conservative leader, the Republicans are the "Party of Life."

Uh huh, tell that to the 2,000+ dead US soldiers, 200,000+ innocent dead Iraqi civilians, and the thousands of African Americans who died as a result of our direct Governmental neglect, etc, etc.

If you want to read about the hypocracies of the Hollywood elite, just pick up a National Enquirer at your local grocery store.




good point.  moore and streisand may occasionally say something we listen to or read, but otherwise they just voices in crowd.

however, julie also note they not start any wars lately....

Paikea

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Re: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2005, 06:04:19 PM »
I'm not a big fan of Pelosi, nor am I really defending her. I'm however wondering if it is possible or pertinent to have a union for a workforce that might be very seasonal (vineyard). Reminds me of my old student government who owned a bar ... with unionized workers. Big mistake.

But, unlike Pelosi, you haven't been awarded the Cesar Chavez award, right?

well, people who gave her award don't seem to find problem, do they, putz?


As far as Pelosi is concerned, in the "technical" sense I can see this being hypocritical, if true.  But I think most people do not have a problem with someone hiring poor migrant farm workers who need the employment to sustain some sort of quality of life.  It doesn't surprise me that some right wing wacko would use this as some sort of example of wrongful "hypocrisy."

At least with Moore, the hypocrisy is somewhat substantial.  It just fails cause not many take Moore seriously.
"Those who want the Government to regulate matters of the mind and spirit are like men who are so afraid of being murdered that they commit suicide to avoid assassination." - Harry S. Truman

"All bad precedents begin with justifiable measures."  - Julius Caesar

Julie Fern

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Re: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2005, 06:36:22 PM »
nonsense.  lot of them have no problem whatsoever.

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Re: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2005, 10:21:53 PM »
nonsense.  lot of them have no problem whatsoever.

Except for Pelosi, of course.  Michael Moore ships work outside the US in order to avoid paying union wages.

 :o

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Re: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2005, 11:01:20 PM »
FIRST WORD
Left Unsaid
by Ben Adler 

Liberals are really just as hypocritical as conservatives. That, in a nutshell, is the message Peter Schweizer, a fellow at the conservative Hoover Institution, delivers to his presumably conservative readers in Do as I Say (Not as I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy. Schweizer opens the book by acknowledging how many socially conservative leaders have been exposed for failing to practice what they (literally, in some cases) preach. But, he counters, "do-as-I-say liberals [also] don't trust their ideas enough to apply them at home." Schweizer focuses on eleven "liberal leaders and spokesmen who are generally esteemed by their constituents and have an influence on the broader culture." The list contains the predictable conservative bugaboos like the Clintons and Ted Kennedy, but also some figures who don't really meet his definition, either because they're controversial among liberals (Ralph Nader, Michael Moore, and George Soros) or inconsequential (Barbara Streisand). It's a surprise he leaves out Jane Fonda.

Less surprising is that Do as I Say includes a number of distortions. Schweizer goes after Ted Kennedy for a tax-shelter scheme concocted by Kennedy's father in 1947, and asserts that Kennedy tries to "avoid" taxes by buying state bonds. What's his point? Liberals who support taxation shouldn't buy state bonds? And nothing is too petty for Schweizer. Harping on Moore, Schweizer attacks him for outsourcing jobs to Canada. Says Schweizer: "For his film Canadian Bacon, he filmed scenes that allegedly took place in the United States in Ontario." But Schweizer's assumption that Moore shot the movie in Canada for cheaper labor is somewhat undercut by the fact the movie is titled Canadian Bacon, not say, Rumble in the Bronx. Perhaps most misleading is Schweizer's claim that Al Franken is a hypocrite because he opposes abstinence-only education programs despite "sen[ding] at least one of his children to a private New York school that boasts an 'abstinence plus' sex ed curriculum." As Franken pointed out to TNR, abstinence plus is completely different from abstinence only, because the former teaches safer sex options which the latter excludes.

Some of Schweizer's examples aren't really hypocrisy even when taken at face value. Why does Michael Moore's supposedly lavish lifestyle make his advocacy on behalf of the poor hypocritical? Coupled with his financial success, Moore's willingness to support politicians who would give some of his wealth to those less fortunate may seem contradictory, but it actually demonstrates his principles--i.e., a commitment to reducing inequality--rather than undermines them.

More disappointing than any of those quibbles is that Do as I Say ducks the most interesting question it raises. Namely, when does personal hypocrisy matter in the political arena?
Surely it can matter. Rush Limbaugh's calls to throw drug addicts in prison are less convincing when he himself abuses prescription painkillers and then wriggles his way out of a jail term. But the reason they're less convincing isn't just because Limbaugh is preaching one thing and then doing another. It's because conservatives like Limbaugh believe that personal morality matters when it comes to public life: The politician who has an affair should be deemed less trustworthy in the eyes of his constituents than the politician who is faithful. So once you discover that Limbaugh behaves "immorally" in private, you either have to question his trustworthiness as a public figure (as he would advise were the sinner someone else), or you have to question his belief that personal morality matters when judging a public figure.

But, within reason, liberals don't believe there's much of a correlation between a person's private lack of virtue and his or her public behavior. (Liberals usually draw the line at victimless crimes.) On the level of principle, liberals have no problem with a strong advocate of public education sending her own children to private school (though, practically speaking, it might make the advocate less effective were it to become public knowledge). In order to make a hypocrisy charge stick against liberals, you'd have to find someone promising one thing then doing another in a way that affects a significant number of people--e.g., an anti-war candidate who funds a secret war in some far-off country. That's why liberals tend to focus more on George W. Bush's broken promise to be a uniter, or to be fiscally responsible than, say, his years as a problem drinker.

It's only when Schweizer unearths this latter kind of failing that he's on solid ground. Several of his strongest passages involve Moore, who, for example, attacks Halliburton's war-profiteering but nonetheless enables it by allowing his charitable foundation to own significant amounts of Halliburton stock. Still, for the most part, Do as I Say is more concerned with scoring cheap political points by wounding the character of prominent liberals than with exposing any deeper moral rot on the left. Then again, for Schweizer and his ilk, those two things are usually one and the same.
"Those who want the Government to regulate matters of the mind and spirit are like men who are so afraid of being murdered that they commit suicide to avoid assassination." - Harry S. Truman

"All bad precedents begin with justifiable measures."  - Julius Caesar

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Re: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2005, 11:06:37 PM »
He used the word "ilk."  I thought only conservatives used that word.

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Re: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2005, 03:02:20 AM »
I think most liberals could care less about Michael Moore and Babs Streisand, let alone their hypocritical nature.  I mean, is this the best the neocons have, Moore and Streisand? Please, whatever you do, don't throw in Alec Baldwin as well! That would be too much! 

Moore and Streisand are side shows compared to the hypocrisy of the fundamental right wing leadership.

Remember, according to Bush and every high ranking conservative leader, the Republicans are the "Party of Life."

Uh huh, tell that to the 2,000+ dead US soldiers, 200,000+ innocent dead Iraqi civilians, and the thousands of African Americans who died as a result of our direct Governmental neglect, etc, etc.

If you want to read about the hypocracies of the Hollywood elite, just pick up a National Enquirer at your local grocery store.




lets see...hmmm...this will be fun...


here this aye'll throw out there

hey the fundamentalist liberals always work to cut defense spending and government intelligence...whose bright idea was it to put george tenet in the position of cia director?

if one ass hadn't appointed another ass there might have been a few more fighter jets in the air on september 9th 10th and 11th flying around the northeast corridor.

oh yeah...that piece you just read is entitled "celsius in battery park city"

michael moore is a dangerously over weight greedy unsympathetic lying capitalist pig...that is a fact...and he exploited the families in columbine he had no heart for the 2000+ dead people on 911...and continually pretends to be a friend to african americans...

He is a classic example of liberal hypocrisy and grass-roots democratic poo-poo.
a follower is a sheep...a progressive liberal means nothing to me...it is just another label...aye don't want to know your name...that is trivial...show me what you can do...the modern labels "democrat" and "republican" are slave terminology...for slaves...you get no respect from this man!

get it?

don't tell me who you are show me what you can do!  labels are for campbell soup containers...aye want to know how the soup tastes.
If you prick us, do we not bleed?  
  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare

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Re: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2005, 01:09:18 PM »
aye heard moore was in new orleans helping the victims of hurricane katrina...that is one ass that no one saw down there.
If you prick us, do we not bleed?  
  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare

Paikea

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Re: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2005, 01:23:58 PM »

lets see...hmmm...this will be fun...


here this aye'll throw out there

hey the fundamentalist liberals always work to cut defense spending and government intelligence...whose bright idea was it to put george tenet in the position of cia director?

if one ass hadn't appointed another ass there might have been a few more fighter jets in the air on september 9th 10th and 11th flying around the northeast corridor.

oh yeah...that piece you just read is entitled "celsius in battery park city"

michael moore is a dangerously over weight greedy unsympathetic lying capitalist pig...that is a fact...and he exploited the families in columbine he had no heart for the 2000+ dead people on 911...and continually pretends to be a friend to african americans...

He is a classic example of liberal hypocrisy and grass-roots democratic poo-poo.
a follower is a sheep...a progressive liberal means nothing to me...it is just another label...aye don't want to know your name...that is trivial...show me what you can do...the modern labels "democrat" and "republican" are slave terminology...for slaves...you get no respect from this man!

get it?

don't tell me who you are show me what you can do!  labels are for campbell soup containers...aye want to know how the soup tastes.



Hmmm, it might have been fun if it made any sense and was at all relevant.

The thing you dont seem to get is that us liberals care less about Michael Moore.  He's Hollywood.  He is nothing.  He is meaningless.
Quit having a hard-on for him.

And if you want to know how the "soup tastes," get involved yourself.  What?  Are you the kind that just likes to watch or something? 

You want to see what us "progressive liberals" can do, then just cast your vote when it comes time. 

In a nutshell, put your money where your mouth is.
"Those who want the Government to regulate matters of the mind and spirit are like men who are so afraid of being murdered that they commit suicide to avoid assassination." - Harry S. Truman

"All bad precedents begin with justifiable measures."  - Julius Caesar

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Re: Liberal Hypocrites - New Book - Do As I Say (Not As I Do)
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2005, 03:22:53 AM »
FIRST WORD
Left Unsaid
by Ben Adler 

Liberals are really just as hypocritical as conservatives. That, in a nutshell, is the message Peter Schweizer, a fellow at the conservative Hoover Institution, delivers to his presumably conservative readers in Do as I Say (Not as I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy. Schweizer opens the book by acknowledging how many socially conservative leaders have been exposed for failing to practice what they (literally, in some cases) preach. But, he counters, "do-as-I-say liberals [also] don't trust their ideas enough to apply them at home." Schweizer focuses on eleven "liberal leaders and spokesmen who are generally esteemed by their constituents and have an influence on the broader culture." The list contains the predictable conservative bugaboos like the Clintons and Ted Kennedy, but also some figures who don't really meet his definition, either because they're controversial among liberals (Ralph Nader, Michael Moore, and George Soros) or inconsequential (Barbara Streisand). It's a surprise he leaves out Jane Fonda.

Less surprising is that Do as I Say includes a number of distortions. Schweizer goes after Ted Kennedy for a tax-shelter scheme concocted by Kennedy's father in 1947, and asserts that Kennedy tries to "avoid" taxes by buying state bonds. What's his point? Liberals who support taxation shouldn't buy state bonds? And nothing is too petty for Schweizer. Harping on Moore, Schweizer attacks him for outsourcing jobs to Canada. Says Schweizer: "For his film Canadian Bacon, he filmed scenes that allegedly took place in the United States in Ontario." But Schweizer's assumption that Moore shot the movie in Canada for cheaper labor is somewhat undercut by the fact the movie is titled Canadian Bacon, not say, Rumble in the Bronx. Perhaps most misleading is Schweizer's claim that Al Franken is a hypocrite because he opposes abstinence-only education programs despite "sen[ding] at least one of his children to a private New York school that boasts an 'abstinence plus' sex ed curriculum." As Franken pointed out to TNR, abstinence plus is completely different from abstinence only, because the former teaches safer sex options which the latter excludes.

Some of Schweizer's examples aren't really hypocrisy even when taken at face value. Why does Michael Moore's supposedly lavish lifestyle make his advocacy on behalf of the poor hypocritical? Coupled with his financial success, Moore's willingness to support politicians who would give some of his wealth to those less fortunate may seem contradictory, but it actually demonstrates his principles--i.e., a commitment to reducing inequality--rather than undermines them.

More disappointing than any of those quibbles is that Do as I Say ducks the most interesting question it raises. Namely, when does personal hypocrisy matter in the political arena?
Surely it can matter. Rush Limbaugh's calls to throw drug addicts in prison are less convincing when he himself abuses prescription painkillers and then wriggles his way out of a jail term. But the reason they're less convincing isn't just because Limbaugh is preaching one thing and then doing another. It's because conservatives like Limbaugh believe that personal morality matters when it comes to public life: The politician who has an affair should be deemed less trustworthy in the eyes of his constituents than the politician who is faithful. So once you discover that Limbaugh behaves "immorally" in private, you either have to question his trustworthiness as a public figure (as he would advise were the sinner someone else), or you have to question his belief that personal morality matters when judging a public figure.

But, within reason, liberals don't believe there's much of a correlation between a person's private lack of virtue and his or her public behavior. (Liberals usually draw the line at victimless crimes.) On the level of principle, liberals have no problem with a strong advocate of public education sending her own children to private school (though, practically speaking, it might make the advocate less effective were it to become public knowledge). In order to make a hypocrisy charge stick against liberals, you'd have to find someone promising one thing then doing another in a way that affects a significant number of people--e.g., an anti-war candidate who funds a secret war in some far-off country. That's why liberals tend to focus more on George W. Bush's broken promise to be a uniter, or to be fiscally responsible than, say, his years as a problem drinker.

It's only when Schweizer unearths this latter kind of failing that he's on solid ground. Several of his strongest passages involve Moore, who, for example, attacks Halliburton's war-profiteering but nonetheless enables it by allowing his charitable foundation to own significant amounts of Halliburton stock. Still, for the most part, Do as I Say is more concerned with scoring cheap political points by wounding the character of prominent liberals than with exposing any deeper moral rot on the left. Then again, for Schweizer and his ilk, those two things are usually one and the same.


This was very well put.