Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: my ethnicity  (Read 3461 times)

FossilJ

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 12969
  • Carbon-date THIS, biznitch!
    • View Profile
    • Cricket Rules!
    • Email
Re: my ethnicity
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2005, 12:36:59 PM »
under the conditions that her ancestors weren't a part of  the Middle Passage...

we need a new poll.. does anyone know anyone that is Black (of our generation) that is passing in 2005?


and..fyi I never said that she wasn't half African... I said she wasn't Black American/ African American...


Using which set of conditions?  Your judgement?

She's just as Black American/African American as you or Sinbad.



You guys are still missing my point, or choosing to ignore it.

She may not identify with African American culture, or even be accepted into it, because of whatever reasons (I guess the Middle Passage is as good an arbitrary variable as any other).  In fact, I'm not even disputing the genealogical historicity of what current African Americans, the descendants of those who did make that trip, see as their culture, nor the fact that current "Africans" don't identify with that culture.

It's because that isn't my point.  My point is that law schools look at the color of your skin, not your cultural heritage.  To a law school, she is as African American as the next person who shows up.  Should it be this way?  No.  Is it this way?  Yes.  Should she take advantage of that?  Well, that's what we're disputing.  I say, given the mitigating circumstances of her youth, she should. 

But I'm just a hardass.  I also understand why you would be so set against it, and I can't say I don't see your point.  For me, however, this is an issue of pragmatics, not of ethics.


And you know this how?

Because you check a box to lump yourself into a sorting category.


and again you know this how?  do you work on an admissions committee?

Do you?  Or are you going to tell me I have the burden of proof?

Let me turn this around.  When you applied, other than a PS or a diversity statement (which I think is a really good idea), how did the schools know you're a URM?

By that, I mean, if they had never met you at all, what on your application distinguished you as a URM?


p.s. I'm quite willing to let this go if you can show me where I'm mistreading.
Pish, J only wants to waste YOUR time.  Get wise.

One Step Ahead

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 6465
  • you say you want a revolution
    • View Profile
Re: my ethnicity
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2005, 12:41:42 PM »
under the conditions that her ancestors weren't a part of  the Middle Passage...

we need a new poll.. does anyone know anyone that is Black (of our generation) that is passing in 2005?


and..fyi I never said that she wasn't half African... I said she wasn't Black American/ African American...


Using which set of conditions?  Your judgement?

She's just as Black American/African American as you or Sinbad.



You guys are still missing my point, or choosing to ignore it.

She may not identify with African American culture, or even be accepted into it, because of whatever reasons (I guess the Middle Passage is as good an arbitrary variable as any other).  In fact, I'm not even disputing the genealogical historicity of what current African Americans, the descendants of those who did make that trip, see as their culture, nor the fact that current "Africans" don't identify with that culture.

It's because that isn't my point.  My point is that law schools look at the color of your skin, not your cultural heritage.  To a law school, she is as African American as the next person who shows up.  Should it be this way?  No.  Is it this way?  Yes.  Should she take advantage of that?  Well, that's what we're disputing.  I say, given the mitigating circumstances of her youth, she should. 

But I'm just a hardass.  I also understand why you would be so set against it, and I can't say I don't see your point.  For me, however, this is an issue of pragmatics, not of ethics.


And you know this how?

Because you check a box to lump yourself into a sorting category.


and again you know this how?  do you work on an admissions committee?

Do you?  Or are you going to tell me I have the burden of proof?

Let me turn this around.  When you applied, other than a PS or a diversity statement (which I think is a really good idea), how did the schools know you're a URM?

By that, I mean, if they had never met you at all, what on your application distinguished you as a URM?


p.s. I'm quite willing to let this go if you can show me where I'm mistreading.


yes, since you are declaring that admissions committees operate a certain way, indeed you do have the burden of proof.
 
I go to Yale; they didn't ask for my ethnicity anywhere on the application.  Maybe by some of my life experiences/personal goals/ student activities they could have inferred my ethnicity, but again what weight each individual reader gave my ethnicity in evaluating what score my application should receive is quite tenuous. 

lex19

  • Guest
Re: my ethnicity
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2005, 01:01:13 PM »
BONG!!!  :D

One Step Ahead

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 6465
  • you say you want a revolution
    • View Profile
Re: my ethnicity
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2005, 01:35:18 PM »
What do you mean, why?  It's pretty clear.  If you are going to give someone something, they should be able to prove why they deserve it.  You can't just say, I am black, therefore I deserve to be admitted to your school with favored status, becuase you aren't just putting yourself against the majority, you are putting yourself against other minorities as well.  An upper class black girl who lives in a Brownstone in Brooklyn Heights and has two college educated, professional parents and has no idea what being deprived means does not deserve the same consideration as a working class black girl who lives in the projects in Newark with abusive real parents and foster parents who make minimum wage.  It's obvious one of those girls has had to overcome significant obstacles to get to where they are that the other didn't.  If you are looking to create diversity of experience rather than just finding different shades of people to put in your brochures, then the only way to do that is a diversity statement.

You honestly think Denise Huxtable deserves prefered status over a black, Hispanic, or even white applicant who grew up in povery and overcame having abusive, or maybe no parents? 
thats silly.  do you have to prove why you deserved the benefits of being white?
btw I'm not saying that there isn't a case to be made for including a system of SES based affirmative action  in addition to a race based system.  I have long advocated for this, but there is something about race the remains a particularly pernicious factor in one's experiences/worldview so that even Denise Huxtable has a set of experiences that her white counterparts do not.

No, it's not silly at all.  I'm not getting 7-10 extra LSAT points becuase of my ethnicity because I'm claiming to represent diversity.  I'm not going to get more extra points than other caucasian/European ethnicities, either, as blacks generally do over Hispanics, for example, either.  It is not silly at all to have someone explain, if they are claiming that their background is special enough to merit special treatment, why that is. 

The simple fact is, not every black person applying to law school has has a life experience that requires special compensation.  I know quite a few black students applying to law school who would bring absolutely nothing to campus diversity outside of their skin-tone.  They were economically sound, in my cases moreso than myself, had strong family units, faced no sigificant discrimination or denial of priviliges, and have absolutely no reason to be receiving any special treatment in the admissions process.  If they were to refuse to identify themselves as any race, they would more than likely have a better shot than I would at getting into certain top schools on numerical merit alone. 

That is why, if you say you are bringing diversity to the table, you'd better be able to explain how.   

write a treatise for me on how you deserved to go to the elementary, middle, and high school that you went to.  this is not a system of compensation, but of recognition.  Chances are Saxby you do not know those black students well enough to know what kind of experiences they have.  Chances are the last time they were followed around in sotres, called a n-word, harassed for no apparent reason they didn't call their dear friend Saxby and tell you all about their problems. 

lex19

  • Guest
Re: my ethnicity
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2005, 01:48:37 PM »
and the fact is saxby the black ppl you speak of are a minority when it comes to the black population in America....but i'm happy to see that the black middle class isn't as invisible as i once thought

blk_reign

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 7978
    • View Profile
Re: my ethnicity
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2005, 01:56:59 PM »
go tell it on the mountain...
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

lex19

  • Guest
Re: my ethnicity
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2005, 02:00:33 PM »
in a few years blk  ;)

j.rosh

  • Guest
Re: my ethnicity
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2005, 02:01:01 PM »
I'm half African American... but never identified myself as such because of an abusive father.  I've preferred to go with Asian.  Which should I put down for the purposes of law school?  I feel guilty claiming a status i've more or less rejected, but if the ends justify the means....

...Vinny?

One Step Ahead

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 6465
  • you say you want a revolution
    • View Profile
Re: my ethnicity
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2005, 02:04:03 PM »
Chances are, I do, but thank you for infering on something you know nothing about.  When I say that I know someone, I know them.  I haven't just seen them one day passing in a hall.  ::)   By the way, if I had, it would have been in the same elementary school, high school and college.  We'll both be writing those statements, huh, and neither one of us should be benefitting over minority applicants who have faced real hardship and lack of opportunity.    

AA is not about making up for people being followed in a store.  It is not about someone being called a racial slur.  If that were the case, law schools would be overflowing with only people who had faced that situation, of all colors, sexes, religions and sexual orientations.  AA is about representation in education and employment, and adjusting for those who wouldn't otherwise have a chance because of unfortunate circumstance and lack of opportunity.  It is also a system designed to change things for the better for minorities.  

If you are an upperclass black applicant with a 168 on the LSAT and a 3.5 GPA from a good university, who, lets just imagine, had never even been called n-word, shouldn't Penny really be the one benefitting from the system as it is meant to be utilized, not as the way it is seen on this board as some sort of compensation for possibly having dealt with idiots on a few occasions?  

I'm pretty sure that if Denise Huxtable wrote a statement saying she would add diversity to campus because she was followed around KMart once and some moron called her a n-word at school one day, Penny GoodTimes would be the one winning those extra points.  As she should.      



No AA is about having more people of color in the professions.  So whether you and your friend grew up in the Hamptons or in Compton, people who look like your friend are underrepresented in the legal field.

lex19

  • Guest
Re: my ethnicity
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2005, 02:06:03 PM »
thank you e, check the numbers saxby...there's a need for more minority lawyers period regardless of class