Law School Discussion

republican hypocrisy at finest

TrojanChispas

  • ****
  • 4667
  • , a worthy adversary
    • View Profile
Re: republican hypocrisy at finest
« Reply #180 on: November 21, 2005, 01:39:42 AM »
with that said, we should find ways to cut back spending, set realistic goals and work backwards from there.  The ultimate goal is to be free of the tax drain and largest entitlement program that is the Iraq war.

Repubs are good at spouting grand ideals as goals like, lbarating people from the tyranny of oppression, but that kind of hyperbole doesnt.

Realistic goals are hard to define but they do not include completely eliminating terrorism from Iraq; it is just not going to happen.


Freak

  • ****
  • 4767
  • What's your agenda?!
    • AOL Instant Messenger - smileyill4663
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - smileyill
    • View Profile
Re: republican hypocrisy at finest
« Reply #181 on: November 30, 2005, 06:58:59 PM »
I hate bush with a passion; he's a dolt among other things.


You hate him because he's a dolt? I really don't understand the general hate for him personally.

I don't understand why liberals (at least many I've met) hate him so much. It's this seething hatred that seems to come out of their pores. I never hated Clinton that way or any politician for that matter. Sure I get frustrated with laws that are passed and decisions made, but I don't hate. I believe most abortions are murder and there have been 50 million(+) in the USA since Roe v. Wade. If anybody has a reason to hate it's pro-lifers, like me.

TrojanChispas

  • ****
  • 4667
  • , a worthy adversary
    • View Profile
Re: republican hypocrisy at finest
« Reply #182 on: November 30, 2005, 07:08:25 PM »
I guess I dont hate him personally because he isnt possibly smart enough to make decisions on his own. BUT I hate everything that he stands for: election stealing, general deception, sending kids to die for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, anti-science, corporate coruption, torture, anti-environment, etcetera.

Freak

  • ****
  • 4767
  • What's your agenda?!
    • AOL Instant Messenger - smileyill4663
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - smileyill
    • View Profile
Re: republican hypocrisy at finest
« Reply #183 on: November 30, 2005, 07:10:27 PM »
I guess I dont hate him personally because he isnt possibly smart enough to make decisions on his own. BUT I hate everything that he stands for: election stealing, general deception, sending kids to die for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, anti-science, corporate coruption, torture, anti-environment, etcetera.

Good, that's a reasonable position. I agree w/you on about half those issues anyway.

redemption

Re: republican hypocrisy at finest
« Reply #184 on: January 17, 2006, 09:53:07 AM »
The "inevitable" assumes that we are going to lose and get kicked out. That's not going to happen.

I say this because for use to leave now would follow the example of the Europeans abruptly leaving their African colonies. They also initially assumed that they were going to be there forever, but by the 1950's and 1960's they abruptly left. They gave no time in regards to preparing troops, and they just selected a government. The Europeans made them to assume responsibility for all problems (even the ones that the Europeans created). What happened as a result? In the ones with rich natural resources, you could predict the outcome. There were civil wars left and right, and coup d'etats every few years.

Although we didn't go to Iraq for colonization, we are doing soemthing analogous in terms of remaking the country's institutions. We have not trained their forces yet so for us to leave would be foolish, considering that we dissolved their security forces.

I am not saying that the African colonies and Iraq are the same. I am only stating that abrupt withdrawals would have disasterous consequences.

Hmm. It is perhaps not that the colonizers left that caused the problems in African countries, but that they came at all. Perhaps it is not that they didn't "re-make" the institutions that is the problem, but that they "made" them in the first place. There is a strong - perhaps overwhelming - case to be made that it was the arrival of the Europeans in Africa and their attendant actions (principally creating artificial polities that split up previously existing communities, and forced others into permanent minorities) that has created the structural difficulties in Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, the Indian subcontinent, etc that exist to this day and that are the source of the governance difficulties that they still experience to this day. Artificial boundaries, a confusion of languages, identities, religions; institutions that did not evolve organically and can therefore have no legitimacy; group conflict over natural resources because of the lack of deep allegiance to the artificial countries; inability for the institutions to adjudicate disputes because they lack popular legitimacy; oh, I won't go on - you see the point.

I am all for analogies, but the wrong or ambiguous ones just confuse the issue.

Perhaps, though, this is after all a good analogy - but for the side opposed to the argument that you are trying to make.

Freak

  • ****
  • 4767
  • What's your agenda?!
    • AOL Instant Messenger - smileyill4663
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - smileyill
    • View Profile
Re: republican hypocrisy at finest
« Reply #185 on: January 17, 2006, 03:34:07 PM »
I don't think you saw his point. He granted that going in was a bad idea and caused problems. He simply pointed out that once in withdrawal requires a careful consideration.