Law School Discussion

how on earth...

superiorlobe

Re: how on earth...
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2004, 12:00:33 PM »
is relying on grammar skills to indicate intelligence really any lamer than relying on lsats? i mean on a scale of one to lame...

I think grammar and writing skills are probably a reasonable indicator of basic intelligence (although I doubt it would be as strong as the GPA-LSAT combo). But when you assess grammar skills them, you should do so in a controlled situation.  Crawling through Internet postings to find typos is hardly a good way of assessing a person's grammar skills.  Analyzing the LSAT writing sample, on the other hand, would be much more reliable.

jacy85

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Re: how on earth...
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2004, 12:11:30 PM »
Touche, barchk!  The saddest thing of all is that superiorlobe, whether he accepts it or not, at times is one of the most ignorant posters on this board.  I doubt I'll get into HYS, but if there are more people with this attitude going there, then I'll be glad to set my sights elsewhere.

Superiorlobe - I'll be attending one of those top 7 that you are applying to (with my 168).  I hope you can stand sitting in class next to people like me.  I'll try not to let my ignorance rub off on you.

LambdaChi03

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Re: how on earth...
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2004, 12:21:01 PM »
I agree, jacy.  He reminds me of some narcissistic patients I used to interview at the psychiatric hospital.  Superiorlobe, you don't need to go to a top 7 school to become an excellent lawyer.  It seems to me that the only reason you want to attend law school is for the prestige that comes along with the title.  This also explains why you insist on attending only a top 7 school.  You want to feel like you are above the rest, and the only way you will feel that way is to become a lawyer from a top 7 school.  This is insecurity, as you stated earlier.  I see how becoming more secure about yourself is making you doubt the decision to go to law school.  I suggest waiting for a while, becoming more secure about who you are and what you want out of life, and then applying to law school.  You don't want to spend 3 years of your life pursuing something just for the prestige.  You should only commit to law school if it will open doors to jobs that you will enjoy.

superiorlobe

Re: how on earth...
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2004, 12:31:55 PM »
Superiorlobe, you don't need to go to a top 7 school to become an excellent lawyer.

My goal is not to become an excellent lawyer.  My goal is to go to an excellent law school, then hopefully transition into another occupation besides being a straight lawyer.  Law professor, member of a think tank, writer with legal background, etc. are all things I would prefer over being a straight lawyer.  If I wanted to be a straight lawyer I would be less concerned about which law school I attend.

Re: how on earth...
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2004, 12:35:33 PM »
Thanks barchk.  Well i will be close to mid30s.  I am going to target #8-#15 Lets see how high i score before applying.  Goodluck at NYU!!

Re: how on earth...
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2004, 12:53:24 PM »
I would like to point out something here, something that might just shed a little bit of perspective on a discussion that horrifies and maddens me.
I CANNOT BELIEVE you just said you wouldn't want to study alongside people who score in the 160s. I think this is incredibly narrow-minded and that you will lose out on SO much if you walk through life with that attitude. Firstly, the fact that every year peope get into the schools you mention with scores in the 160s range suggests that admissions people, unlike you, realise that intellect is judged in other ways than the LSAT. A very good friend of mine was student body president in one of the universities you mentioned, is a Rhodes scholar, single-handedly formed a charity to build a library that is close to completion in Africa, is pursuing a PhD in Cambridge University and is going to Yale law with a 167. I suppose you wouldn't admit such a person, still less like to associate with one, but not only would you be missing out, you'd be plain WRONG. It's not often we can say things are right or wrong in life, particularly not as future-lawyers, but here I say it with whole-hearted conviction.

Let me also say something else that I think might be interesting to you and to other people on this board (but to them I address myself with less hostility - I'd just like to share a different experience) - in the UK we don't have the LSAT. I attend Oxford University, and I have never been taught logic, nor had I previously taken a standardised test. You could attribute what will be my less than stellar result (I know I will score in the low to mid 160s) to lack of standardised testing experience. Adcoms in many US law schools suggested I include an addendum making that point. But you know what? It's not true. I worked my ass off for the LSAT and I believe my mediocre score next week really will be the best I can do on that test. You may judge me and others like me as stupid: feel free. But future employers will not judge us in that way, and we're not. We may think differently, have experienced something different, have chosen, like my friend, to concentrate more on other things.
I scored in the 160s for none of those reasons. I'm just not particularly good at the LSAT.
 
Now, commercial law is not the only way to go (nor am I sure it will be my way) but the biggest international law firms here sponsor their students through UK law school and take them on afterwards, sending them to Hong Kong and New York for secondments, without any such test. These are the same international 'magic circle' firms that in New York only recruit top school people, people from Harvard, Yale, Columbia etc. people who probably scored above 169. Yet I could join one of those firms, work alongside those people, I have been made an offer of a training contract by one, and I repeat: my score next week will be in the low to mid 160s. This is a fact of which I'm not ashamed or I wouldn't be announcing it. I am telling you this to show that there are other ways, and that my intellect will not be judged on my LSAT score in my career, should I decide to pursue it here. Do you think that employers around the world who successfully recruit without this test are stupid? And do you honestly think that someone in the US with a score in the 160s won't get to the same place as you, with enough passion and determination, in the end? I think they will, and sooner than you think. Further still, if US people were here, some could do it immediately.

Superiorlobe, I think that when you get out into the real world (I know nothing is real, I suppose I mean the working world) I think you will see beyond this and realise that people's value, their 'intellectual' value is not only judged in many ways but _manifests_ it in many ways andin different circumstances. And intellect is not the only thing that makes someone a good lawyer. Far from it. And at the end, that's why we're going through this nightmare. Chances are, if I'm chosen to work alongside a Yale grad, I won't be that much inferior to them in the workplace, probably not in intellect. I can assure you my LSAT score will be.

But I don't care, and hope to be judged not on the name of my school or my scores - but on who I am and what I can or cannot contribute.

Make of that what you will.

Wherever I go, whatever I do, I can't wait to be surrounded by the people who are PASSIONATE about law, about what they can do, and who have the ardent wish to do it well. And those qualities will not be encapsulated by their LSAT scores, nor will mine by mine. And when you realise that YOURS won't be by YOUR results, you'll feel better, do better, and THAT will be the attitude that gets you into the school of your dreams. Good luck.

buster

Re: how on earth...
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2004, 01:02:11 PM »
anyone else ever wonder if superiorlobe is just totally full of *&^% and enjoys watching others get all riled up? ???

XTCLaw65

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Re: how on earth...
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2004, 01:12:54 PM »
anyone else ever wonder if superiorlobe is just totally full of *&^% and enjoys watching others get all riled up? ???

Good point buster, but if superiorlobe honestly believes what he wrote, he should just get over himself.  I mean, even his board name contains "superior".  WASSUP wit dat?!?  Oh I'm sorry, was that last statement not up to par with the intelligence quota?

superiorlobe

Re: how on earth...
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2004, 01:27:45 PM »
I CANNOT BELIEVE you just said you wouldn't want to study alongside people who score in the 160s. I think this is incredibly narrow-minded and that you will lose out on SO much if you walk through life with that attitude.

First, let me agree for once with GreenEqsnHam.  I do have a bit of a trollish streak in me.  And that remark about people with scores in the 160s was my trollishness emerging.  In fact, I have scored in the 160s myself on several PrepTests. I do not think law schools should simple accept applicants in the order their LSAT scores, starting with the 180s and working down.  That would be ridiculous.

A very good friend of mine was student body president in one of the universities you mentioned, is a Rhodes scholar, single-handedly formed a charity to build a library that is close to completion in Africa, is pursuing a PhD in Cambridge University and is going to Yale law with a 167.

I also have a very good friend who is a Rhodes Scholar.  In fact, since the Rhodes scholar community is fairly small, my friend and your friend probably know each other.  So you are a friend of a friend of a friend of mine.  Anyway, my Rhodes Scholar friend is just winding up her D.Phil at Oxford and may attend law school.  I am certain that she will get into Harvard, Yale, and every other school she applies to, and I wouldn't be surprised if she gets an LSAT in the 160s (although the 170s wouldn't surprise me either -- in any case her LSAT doesn't matter because they will take her with anything over a 160, as they ought to).

I suppose you wouldn't admit such a person, still less like to associate with one, but not only would you be missing out, you'd be plain WRONG. It's not often we can say things are right or wrong in life, particularly not as future-lawyers, but here I say it with whole-hearted conviction.

I agree that I am just plain wrong.

I attend Oxford University...

I spent a semester abroad at Oxford through the Centre for Medieval and Rennaissance Studies, associated with Keble College.  It is possible that you are merely a friend of a friend of mine.

I worked my ass off for the LSAT and I believe my mediocre score next week really will be the best I can do on that test. You may judge me and others like me as stupid: feel free.

I don't judge you as stupid.  A score above 160 is not mediocre -- in fact it places you in the top 15% of test takers.  And the group of test takers is already a select group consisting overwhelmingly of college graduates.

with enough passion and determination...

These qualities are far more important than your LSAT score.  I salute those who possess them.

Superiorlobe, I think that when you get out into the real world (I know nothing is real, I suppose I mean the working world)...

I'm 29, have a masters degree, and have been in the working world for several years.

Wherever I go, whatever I do, I can't wait to be surrounded by the people who are PASSIONATE about law, about what they can do, and whohave the ardent wish to do it well.

Ahhh that the world were filled with passionate people!

Good luck.

I wish you the same.

lexylit

Re: how on earth...
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2004, 01:31:33 PM »
oh, you actually want to use the subjunctive here, sweetheart. that the world WERE filled with passionate people.

HAHAHAHAH im a smallminded grammar troll   :D

but only for the 'lobe!

Quote from: superiorlobe link=topic=4339.msg51613#msg51613
Ahhh that the world was filled with passionate people!

[quote