Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Poll

Why are the Newbies scared to speak up?

They prefer to Lurk.
 16 (34.8%)
They're not, they're just on another website.
 4 (8.7%)
The Board is too cliquish.
 10 (21.7%)
There's nothing interesting to talk about.
 2 (4.3%)
There's nobody interesting to talk to.
 2 (4.3%)
Not enough Board moderation.
 4 (8.7%)
Newbies?  What Newbies?
 8 (17.4%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Author Topic: Black Law Student Discussion Board  (Read 1677079 times)

LadyKD

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1297
  • And so it began..
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Black Law Student Discussion Board
« Reply #50560 on: September 13, 2007, 12:17:11 PM »
disagree. I think everyone's UNpleasantly surprised when they realize what LS is all about.  And  I don't think it's a reflection of lack of due diligence or even laziness.   Surely in some situations that's the case.  Not to mention there are those folks who only went to LS b/c of their parents and sometimes fail on purpose.  Some schools do not have full disclosure prior to matriculation.  And there are other schools that never really have full disclosure.

I'm not laying it all on the feet of laziness and partying.. but I am also not turning a blind eye to the fact that there are many blk folk specifically that get caught up in that... I see folks here that are already looking for all of the parties but I haven't seen them at any of the internship fairs or community service sign ups this week.. it's pretty pathetic if you ask me.. it's sad to say but you can pretty much gauge early on what category a person is going to fall into when it  comes to academia...

I am also aware that there are some people that require more studying than the norm.. but I just feel that a person needs to be realistic.. if they know that there are some hindrances then they need to be ready willing and able to do whatever they must do in order to "get it".. if that requires befriending the gunner that everyone despises who gets it then so be it.. if it means going to your professors office hours and having one on one time with the TA til you're breathing and dreaming torts or civ pro then so be it..

like I said I firmly believe that some of these schools should be closed.. if the university is going to admit majority "subpar" applicants then there needs to be some sort of program tailored to their needs specifically.. because at the end of the day they still have to compete with everyone else... and under these circumstances they cannot.. and it is unfortunate...

but a person with low skills must take responsibility for taking on this task of law school when they already know coming in what they are dealing with personally on an intellectual level...


Blk, I agree with you for the most part, but I really don't think you can lay this all at the feet of partying and laziness.  I know students at my school (a semi-respectable T2) who worked very hard (much harder than I!) and are now on academic probation.  Some people have trouble adjusting to the rigors of law school or to the particular demands of their professors.  Some people have very low skills coming in.  These T4 schools prey on such students instead of doing everything they can to give the folks they admit a reasonable shot at becoming a lawyer.  I think it's disgraceful.

Not to be a smartass but I find it hard to believe that a person who is familiar with the higher education "process" (undergrad). Would all of sudden become surprised by law school. I mean I read the thread about the horrors of 1L. Everyone talks about their classes and their reactions to lecture etc.But come on we are all adults here right? You cant honestly tell me that some people believe they will skate through law school at...what.. (on average say what 20grand a year)on a chicken wing and a pray? I am just not buying that. If a person is being serious about their choice to attend law school then they had to at the very least.. reviewed the materials and information on the chosen school, attend a open house, something.

Kirk Lazarus

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2042
  • I'm a lead farmer, mofo
    • View Profile
Re: Black Law Student Discussion Board
« Reply #50561 on: September 13, 2007, 12:18:20 PM »
I'm all for the law school interview!!!  Let's face it, everyone is not meant to be a law student OR an attorney.  The keyword is accountability and due diligence.  I believe I spoke on this last night.  Some students work harder on trying to appeal a decision booting them out of law school than they did studying for exams.  Due diligence means just that....be diligent in everything that you do.  Yes, a 2.0 curve is a mutha, BUT you know your weaknesses, whether that be the club scene, the bar, TV, or whatever.  I will tell anyone not to wait until the last minute to do anything.

Or we can go with Sander's approach and eliminate affirmative action. These people will magically go to schools that are better fits and graduate.
YLS c/o 2009

Miss P

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 21337
    • View Profile
Re: Black Law Student Discussion Board
« Reply #50562 on: September 13, 2007, 12:21:25 PM »
Or we can go with Sander's approach and eliminate affirmative action. These people will magically go to schools that are better fits and graduate.

This is certainly not what I am suggesting.  I hope you aren't interpreting what I've said in this light.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

blk_reign

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 7978
    • View Profile
Re: Black Law Student Discussion Board
« Reply #50563 on: September 13, 2007, 12:22:44 PM »
i think the curve is enough disclosure.. if I came into a law school with a 2.3 gpa from undergrad.. without a master's degree.. and a 148 LSAT score (after taking that joker 2-3 times).. and administration said 2.0 is the curve.. I'd politely excuse myself (u know how people do in church lol) head to the registrar's office and withdraw..

give me my check back..

Some, yes, but you make it seem like it's a majority.  I know some knuckleheads that I knew in the beginning of the 2nd semester would not be back. Totally called it. Never read a case or outlined EVER.  They were like cars that just ran out of gas.  But that's like 1-2 ppl out of like 10 ppl I know got kicked out.

Also how much disclosure do you guys think is enough and at what point?   


what do you disagree with exactly?

the part where I said specifically that some students fall into that category?

or the part where I said that I've seen that exhibited here @ our very own Harvard with black folks and being able to tell what they're more concerned about off the bat?

or is it the part where I suggested that some people require more studying than the norm and they in turn need to meet with professors and TAs or gunners?

or was it the part about the lower schools needing to tailor their programs for the students that they admit that are already on the lower playing field due to the rankings and average LSAT/GPA profiles of the school?

or the part about folks having to compete with everyone in every other law school that exists?

disagree. I think everyone's UNpleasantly surprised when they realize what LS is all about.  And  I don't think it's a reflection of lack of due diligence or even laziness.   Surely in some situations that's the case.  Not to mention there are those folks who only went to LS b/c of their parents and sometimes fail on purpose.  Some schools do not have full disclosure prior to matriculation.  And there are other schools that never really have full disclosure.

We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

intent06

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1629
  • "All hail the Chief!"
    • View Profile
Re: Black Law Student Discussion Board
« Reply #50564 on: September 13, 2007, 12:23:37 PM »
disagree. I think everyone's UNpleasantly surprised when they realize what LS is all about.  And  I don't think it's a reflection of lack of due diligence or even laziness.   Surely in some situations that's the case.  Not to mention there are those folks who only went to LS b/c of their parents and sometimes fail on purpose.  Some schools do not have full disclosure prior to matriculation.  And there are other schools that never really have full disclosure.

I'm not laying it all on the feet of laziness and partying.. but I am also not turning a blind eye to the fact that there are many blk folk specifically that get caught up in that... I see folks here that are already looking for all of the parties but I haven't seen them at any of the internship fairs or community service sign ups this week.. it's pretty pathetic if you ask me.. it's sad to say but you can pretty much gauge early on what category a person is going to fall into when it  comes to academia...

I am also aware that there are some people that require more studying than the norm.. but I just feel that a person needs to be realistic.. if they know that there are some hindrances then they need to be ready willing and able to do whatever they must do in order to "get it".. if that requires befriending the gunner that everyone despises who gets it then so be it.. if it means going to your professors office hours and having one on one time with the TA til you're breathing and dreaming torts or civ pro then so be it..

like I said I firmly believe that some of these schools should be closed.. if the university is going to admit majority "subpar" applicants then there needs to be some sort of program tailored to their needs specifically.. because at the end of the day they still have to compete with everyone else... and under these circumstances they cannot.. and it is unfortunate...

but a person with low skills must take responsibility for taking on this task of law school when they already know coming in what they are dealing with personally on an intellectual level...


Blk, I agree with you for the most part, but I really don't think you can lay this all at the feet of partying and laziness.  I know students at my school (a semi-respectable T2) who worked very hard (much harder than I!) and are now on academic probation.  Some people have trouble adjusting to the rigors of law school or to the particular demands of their professors.  Some people have very low skills coming in.  These T4 schools prey on such students instead of doing everything they can to give the folks they admit a reasonable shot at becoming a lawyer.  I think it's disgraceful.

Not to be a smartass but I find it hard to believe that a person who is familiar with the higher education "process" (undergrad). Would all of sudden become surprised by law school. I mean I read the thread about the horrors of 1L. Everyone talks about their classes and their reactions to lecture etc.But come on we are all adults here right? You cant honestly tell me that some people believe they will skate through law school at...what.. (on average say what 20grand a year)on a chicken wing and a pray? I am just not buying that. If a person is being serious about their choice to attend law school then they had to at the very least.. reviewed the materials and information on the chosen school, attend a open house, something.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.  How can you say that someone is not familiar with the rigors of law school?  I mean whether it be through rumor, what your best friend told you, or whatever, you KNOW it's going to be hard work.  If it were easy, wouldn't everyone go to law school so they could make major paper?  It all comes back to being accountable and responsible.  Sometimes students see the light at the end of the tunnel and not the stress you have to go through to get it.  Sometimes students just go to the school that accepted them instead of seriously evaluating if this is the career for them.  OR sometimes, people just think they are invincible and don't realize the consequences of their actions, or lack thereof, until something negative happens.

Law school and the law is not for the faint of heart or for those that sit around and blame everyone but the "man in the mirror".  Now, Cui Bono, I am not personally attacking you, but you aren't addressing something that I think is KEY......is it only the law school that is to blame?  Let me stop before I go off on some contributory negligence sh*t...lol
Damn...it's the third year already!!

cui bono?

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4036
  • blah bliggetty blah
    • View Profile
Re: Black Law Student Discussion Board
« Reply #50565 on: September 13, 2007, 12:25:58 PM »

Not to be a smartass but I find it hard to believe that a person who is familiar with the higher education "process" (undergrad). Would all of sudden become surprised by law school. I mean I read the thread about the horrors of 1L. Everyone talks about their classes and their reactions to lecture etc.But come on we are all adults here right? You cant honestly tell me that some people believe they will skate through law school at...what.. (on average say what 20grand a year)on a chicken wing and a pray? I am just not buying that. If a person is being serious about their choice to attend law school then they had to at the very least.. reviewed the materials and information on the chosen school, attend a open house, something.

I just think there were some things about LS that we all didn't know/ didn't realize the extent, etc.  And there's a contractual relationship btw student and LS.  The nature of the relationship is such that the burden may shift to the school rather than a student's "duty to investigate".  I don't think there's really that much substance for an argument that the student/applicant assumes the risk.
I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality...  I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word - -Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King

blk_reign

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 7978
    • View Profile
Re: Black Law Student Discussion Board
« Reply #50566 on: September 13, 2007, 12:26:14 PM »
quote of the day lol

Let me stop before I go off on some contributory negligence sh*t...lol
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

Gengiswump

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4725
  • "she's a tough mfer, but she knows how to party"
    • View Profile
Re: Black Law Student Discussion Board
« Reply #50567 on: September 13, 2007, 12:26:48 PM »
I simply maintain that any school with a policy that, not allows, but essentially requires them to flunk people out is clearly admitting people they know they will fail, and that it actually doesn't really matter that much if they know which people those are at the outset.  The policy flaw, to my mind, isn't the curve or even the forced curve, it's the curve that requires someone to fail.  That seems clearly in violation of not only ethics, but that ABA standard we keep mentioning.
Quote from: tj.
Write a PS on it, fuckstick.

Quote from: Miss P
Sometimes all you've got is a wacky hi-jink.

Quote from: Miss P
This is truly the ultimate in toolish douchebaggery.


Res nonnumquam ipsa loquitur, sed aliter aeternaliter queritur.

jarhead

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2747
  • "i keeps it reeaal!"
    • View Profile
Re: Black Law Student Discussion Board
« Reply #50568 on: September 13, 2007, 12:27:31 PM »
disagree. I think everyone's UNpleasantly surprised when they realize what LS is all about.  And  I don't think it's a reflection of lack of due diligence or even laziness.   Surely in some situations that's the case.  Not to mention there are those folks who only went to LS b/c of their parents and sometimes fail on purpose.  Some schools do not have full disclosure prior to matriculation.  And there are other schools that never really have full disclosure.

I'm not laying it all on the feet of laziness and partying.. but I am also not turning a blind eye to the fact that there are many blk folk specifically that get caught up in that... I see folks here that are already looking for all of the parties but I haven't seen them at any of the internship fairs or community service sign ups this week.. it's pretty pathetic if you ask me.. it's sad to say but you can pretty much gauge early on what category a person is going to fall into when it  comes to academia...

I am also aware that there are some people that require more studying than the norm.. but I just feel that a person needs to be realistic.. if they know that there are some hindrances then they need to be ready willing and able to do whatever they must do in order to "get it".. if that requires befriending the gunner that everyone despises who gets it then so be it.. if it means going to your professors office hours and having one on one time with the TA til you're breathing and dreaming torts or civ pro then so be it..

like I said I firmly believe that some of these schools should be closed.. if the university is going to admit majority "subpar" applicants then there needs to be some sort of program tailored to their needs specifically.. because at the end of the day they still have to compete with everyone else... and under these circumstances they cannot.. and it is unfortunate...

but a person with low skills must take responsibility for taking on this task of law school when they already know coming in what they are dealing with personally on an intellectual level...


Blk, I agree with you for the most part, but I really don't think you can lay this all at the feet of partying and laziness.  I know students at my school (a semi-respectable T2) who worked very hard (much harder than I!) and are now on academic probation.  Some people have trouble adjusting to the rigors of law school or to the particular demands of their professors.  Some people have very low skills coming in.  These T4 schools prey on such students instead of doing everything they can to give the folks they admit a reasonable shot at becoming a lawyer.  I think it's disgraceful.

Not to be a smartass but I find it hard to believe that a person who is familiar with the higher education "process" (undergrad). Would all of sudden become surprised by law school. I mean I read the thread about the horrors of 1L. Everyone talks about their classes and their reactions to lecture etc.But come on we are all adults here right? You cant honestly tell me that some people believe they will skate through law school at...what.. (on average say what 20grand a year)on a chicken wing and a pray? I am just not buying that. If a person is being serious about their choice to attend law school then they had to at the very least.. reviewed the materials and information on the chosen school, attend a open house, something.


i have to agree with this. i guess i'm coming from a different mind set i feel that by the time you get to law school you're an adult. you're paying money you want to graduate do what is necessary if that means meeting with profs briefing cases and do remedial stuff that others call "a waste of time" do it. i mean i guess i'm saying grow up. i don't see why any serious student who was good enough to get into law school whatever tier can't graduate. if you need to adjust from UG adjust i mean wtf is so damn difficult about that? worrying about what everybody else is doing, what everybody else thinks, that somebody is gonna think your dumb is just juvenile and childish. what the next man eats doesn't make you ish....your 20 something years old time to put down childish things.
...man, you was who you was before you got here

Kirk Lazarus

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2042
  • I'm a lead farmer, mofo
    • View Profile
Re: Black Law Student Discussion Board
« Reply #50569 on: September 13, 2007, 12:28:43 PM »
Or we can go with Sander's approach and eliminate affirmative action. These people will magically go to schools that are better fits and graduate.

This is certainly not what I am suggesting.  I hope you aren't interpreting what I've said in this light.

No, of course not. I'm just reading through Ian's article that you posted. No, I'm not interpreting what you've been saying as supportive of Sander's approach. At the most basic level, I just assume that you believe 1)African Americans are disproportionately failing out of law school (disproportionate is a nice word given Ian's article), 2) Part of the problem is the fact that students don't understand that there are forced curves at many law schools, 3) School's should do a better job of educating prospective at risk admits of the pros/cons of taking on such a substantial risk, particularly at lower ranked schools.
YLS c/o 2009