Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Kanye West Comment  (Read 13057 times)

cannotpick

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 598
    • View Profile
Re: Kanye West Comment
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2005, 01:25:56 AM »
People like you are the reason that I no longer identify myself as liberal. Kanye made an idiotic remark at an inopportune time (& not too eloquently, might I add). He wants to make everything about race rather than dedicating his time to what needs to be done- ie raise money for the victims of this terrible trajedy. BUT, instead everything has to be a little civil rights campaign, where some random hip-hop star is suddenly Dr. King.

So, whether you buy into the BS that everyone & everything is racist, that's your business. But, the timing was ridiculous. And, for the record, I wouldn't exactly say that the national guard is coming in to oppress law abiding citizens. It doesn't mean the people in the disaster areas are bad people. It's just that when people no longer believe law & order exists, they adopt Hobbesian behavior out of fear. Yes, there are differing viewpoints about the looting (& I never noticed that the news only sympathizes with whites taking food, but not blacks... but thank god Kanye informed me of this), but the rapes, shootings, & mass chaos give some reason to have to worry about re-instituting some semblance of civil society.

So, even if you disagree with my opinion (which, especially since I'm a semi-conservative [though not a Bush supporter] white kid, most of you undoubtedly do), you should at least recognize that Kanye lacks any tact. If he actually cared about the victims, he'd merely put his face out there & lend his support for the cause. His goal should be to increase donations. The soapbox preaching could be saved for another day. Instead, he showed just how little he cared by alienating potential financial contributors & by doing his absolute BEST to make this all about him & not the victims. Good work Kanye. You're causing those that you identify as "your people" to suffer even more.
'08 graduate of Brooklyn Law

...The Dude abides...

John Galt

  • Guest
Re: Kanye West Comment
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2005, 01:47:25 AM »
People like you are the reason that I no longer identify myself as liberal. Kanye made an idiotic remark at an inopportune time (& not too eloquently, might I add). He wants to make everything about race rather than dedicating his time to what needs to be done- ie raise money for the victims of this terrible trajedy. BUT, instead everything has to be a little civil rights campaign, where some random hip-hop star is suddenly Dr. King.

So, whether you buy into the BS that everyone & everything is racist, that's your business. But, the timing was ridiculous. And, for the record, I wouldn't exactly say that the national guard is coming in to oppress law abiding citizens. It doesn't mean the people in the disaster areas are bad people. It's just that when people no longer believe law & order exists, they adopt Hobbesian behavior out of fear. Yes, there are differing viewpoints about the looting (& I never noticed that the news only sympathizes with whites taking food, but not blacks... but thank god Kanye informed me of this), but the rapes, shootings, & mass chaos give some reason to have to worry about re-instituting some semblance of civil society.

So, even if you disagree with my opinion (which, especially since I'm a semi-conservative [though not a Bush supporter] white kid, most of you undoubtedly do), you should at least recognize that Kanye lacks any tact. If he actually cared about the victims, he'd merely put his face out there & lend his support for the cause. His goal should be to increase donations. The soapbox preaching could be saved for another day. Instead, he showed just how little he cared by alienating potential financial contributors & by doing his absolute BEST to make this all about him & not the victims. Good work Kanye. You're causing those that you identify as "your people" to suffer even more.

This isn't about being liberal or conservative. It really boils down to a national tragedy. The fact of the matter is that the largest natural disaster in nearly a century fell upon New Orleans and some parts of Mississippi. This disaster killed thousands, injured even more, caused infrastructure damage in the billions, and stopped productivity in the region. In short, many people lost everything - loved ones, property, jobs, and their livlihood. The fact is that the majority of those that lost everything - and the majority of those directly affected - were either poor, black, or both.

Kanye articulated the perception among many in this community that President Bush does not care about them. Kanye was articulating what people in New Orleans were thinking. And let us be clear, President Bush did not show any initiative during the initial aftermath of hurricane Katrina for us to believe otherwise.

Let me tell you what I believe. I believe if this national tragedy happened in a majority white area, the response would have been quicker and more effective. I think if the majority of victims would have been white, they would have been called displaced citizens not refugees. These are some of the subtle things that make me believe that race still play a part in almost every facet of our policy.

Kanye needed to say what was said. Everyone thinks that during this time, we all need to come together and sing Kumbaya and focus on raising money for the victims. If our Congress is worth their paychecks, our donations will provide little of the overall expenditure for the rebuilding. What citizens need to be doing is demanding answers - Yes, during a national crisis we should come together...but we should also make it very clear that the response was intolerable.

Finally, it should be noted that had President Bush displayed any ounce of Presidential Leadership in this crisis to begin with, we wouldn't even be arguing whether Kanye's comments hold any weight. The President's own actions have given support to Mr. West's accusations and that speaks volumes.

blk_reign

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 7978
    • View Profile
Re: Kanye West Comment
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2005, 02:13:45 AM »
If something like this happened in the Hamptons you better believe that action would have been taken for people to be removed quicker.. I wouldn't have halted the benefit to state my opinions on the matter however I do believe that Kanye had a point stemming from the gall of American citizens being called refugees all the way to the neglect for food and water for these victims..

It is very hard not to make this a racial and socioeconomic issue when 99% of the people that I am watching on CNN are black and poor...

It's also very interesting that there's barely any mention of Xavier University or Dillard University which have both suffered extensive damage...
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

DodgerLaw

  • Guest
Re: Kanye West Comment
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2005, 02:38:04 AM »
Average White Guy checking in to comment. I voted for Bush both times, and I have supported much of what he has done. At times, I thought he has done very well.

I am deeply disappointed in his actions and inactions in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. He flat-out failed.

He should have been on the ground in New Orleans at least by Wednesday. (Aside: In the immediate aftermath of the hurricane, it looked like the city, although badly damaged, had dodged a bullet.) He should have been on national T.V. calling the nation into action. Asking state and city leaders throughout the region and throughout the country to send buses and helicopters to New Orleans to evacuate the city. Asking school districts throughout the region to shut down if necessary so that the buses could help in New Orleans. Obviously, FEMA should have moved much more quickly, and although I'm not sure how much Bush is to blame for that, he is the President and must take responsibility. "The Buck Stops Here" attitude.

I agree with the restrained answer Jesse Jackson gave when asked if he thought that Bush didn't care about Black people. Jackson said that Bush's actions didn't show it.

I don't know if Bush doesn't care about Blacks or if that had anything to do with his slow reaction. I hope that is not true. But I can certainly understand the feeling of people like blk_reign.esq when they say that the reaction would have been swifter if this had happened in the Hamptons. He certainly left room for doubt.

I would like to apologize on behalf of Republicans and Anglo-Americans for the president's tremendous lack of leadership on this occasion.

social drinker

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2705
    • View Profile
Re: Kanye West Comment
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2005, 03:50:48 AM »
*clap* *clap*

Yes, what a genius Kanye is. Let's see, when you run a drive to raise money, the idea is not to piss off the people that you are there to raise money from. Now, right or wrong the statement was inapproptiate because he just isolated approximately 50% of the population that voted for the Bush administration. Good job, Kanye, you talentless twit. Hey, if we piss off more people, we'll be able to raise less money!

I love how people refuse to see the forest for the stinking trees.

shaz

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1664
  • University of Toledo Class of 2009
    • View Profile
Re: Kanye West Comment
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2005, 04:21:56 AM »
I 'love' how people refuse to see the trees for the forest.

losin' sleep, gainin' knowledge.

shaz

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1664
  • University of Toledo Class of 2009
    • View Profile
Re: Kanye West Comment
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2005, 04:35:55 AM »
"Cut it out, get on with your lives, and understand that no American wants to see any other Americans dead anywhere"

In what country do you live? Have you ever heard the phrase, "only good N..... is a dead N......" ? Well I have. So forgive me for not agreeing with you.
losin' sleep, gainin' knowledge.

ThePerfectSoldier

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
    • AOL Instant Messenger - SuzukiAkira138
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Kanye West Comment
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2005, 07:49:41 AM »
People like you are the reason that I no longer identify myself as liberal. Kanye made an idiotic remark at an inopportune time (& not too eloquently, might I add). He wants to make everything about race rather than dedicating his time to what needs to be done- ie raise money for the victims of this terrible trajedy. BUT, instead everything has to be a little civil rights campaign, where some random hip-hop star is suddenly Dr. King.

So, whether you buy into the BS that everyone & everything is racist, that's your business. But, the timing was ridiculous. And, for the record, I wouldn't exactly say that the national guard is coming in to oppress law abiding citizens. It doesn't mean the people in the disaster areas are bad people. It's just that when people no longer believe law & order exists, they adopt Hobbesian behavior out of fear. Yes, there are differing viewpoints about the looting (& I never noticed that the news only sympathizes with whites taking food, but not blacks... but thank god Kanye informed me of this), but the rapes, shootings, & mass chaos give some reason to have to worry about re-instituting some semblance of civil society.

So, even if you disagree with my opinion (which, especially since I'm a semi-conservative [though not a Bush supporter] white kid, most of you undoubtedly do), you should at least recognize that Kanye lacks any tact. If he actually cared about the victims, he'd merely put his face out there & lend his support for the cause. His goal should be to increase donations. The soapbox preaching could be saved for another day. Instead, he showed just how little he cared by alienating potential financial contributors & by doing his absolute BEST to make this all about him & not the victims. Good work Kanye. You're causing those that you identify as "your people" to suffer even more.


bull.  This 'bad timing' mentality is retarded.  His message reached a lot of viewers, as did the money raised by him and the others at that benefit.  Maybe you like seeing the same message regurgitated over and over by random celebrities and feel that by going off the script Kanye was somehow neglecting his responsibilities - well then let me row a canoe in a New Orleans flood-high river of my tears for you.

But, for just a second, let's pretend that there was some other outlet for Kanye West to say what he did.  What, you want him to kick out a single about this?  You want him to go on an interview about the hurricane and say it then? You want him to wait a few weeks for a few dozen more people to die before he calls the government out on this bull, or should he do it at his first public opportunity?  Would you wait?  If so, YOU are the one who's criticism is at an inopportune time.

John Galt

  • Guest
Re: Kanye West Comment
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2005, 10:30:36 AM »
Don't take offense to this, John Galt, as I have great respect for you.

I, for one, think that Bush's response to this disaster has been disgraceful.

Maybe. The whole government is culpable in that case, however.

I expect that leaders in the democratic party and civil rights activists to ask for his resignation.


They won't, and they'd look like fools if they did.  What exactly were they doing to help?

Moreover, President Bush's attempt to divert attention away from the hurricane crisis by announcing he would nominate a person to replace Rehinquist and his insistance of Roberts nomination to continue this week shows just how political minded he is.


Completely asinine.  Choosing who will fill two out of nine of the seats of the nation's most powerful body is important - agree or disagree?

Had Clinton been President, he would've been down at that Stadium the day after the storm shaking hands and making the people feel like everything was going to be ok. He would've had troops on the ground ASAP and he would've called a special session of Congress to secure the funding earlier. He would've been on FEMA's ass from day one. Clinton would've been in the water talking to survivors and he would've made a speech outlining our options.


You must be omniscient, or else you are guessing. 

Now we might have an oil crisis if we can't reopen the refineries in New Orleans, we're spending hundreds of millions of dollars a month in Iraq, and now we have a massive multi-billion dollar rebuilding project on our hands. Who else still thinks tax cuts were a good idea? Especially tax cuts favoring the rich over the less fortunate?


Tax cuts aren't the problem - it's our continued presence in Iraq that is the problem. 

Bush campaigned in 2000 that he was no Clinton...


Did it work? 



No offense taken. And I have great respect for you as well. To the issues at hand. When you say the whole government is culpable, you mean the Bush Administration. He leads the government, he appoints his people to all the agencies, people under his command run FEMA. The executive branch failed. The fact is that the black caucus nor other democratic legislators were in a position to control FEMA.

With regards to the nomination of Roberts and whoever Bush will appoint to replace the cheif justice, I do not think that a battle right now is appropriate. It is a diversion technique. If Bush nominated someone two weeks from now and agreed to implore the congress to postpone the Roberts nomination hearings for two weeks in order to focus on responding to this ordeal, the Court would still be just fine.

On to Clinton, I was basing my evaluation on Clinton by observing the superb way he had handled natural disasters during his administration. Granted, Clinton never dealt with one of this magnitude, but I think I have a good grasp on how Clinton would have responded. But you are right - pure speculation on my part.

And finally, tax cuts, the war in Iraq, the response to Katrina are all problems. The main problem, however, in my estimate is President Bush and his poor handling of all these issues.

cannotpick

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 598
    • View Profile
Re: Kanye West Comment
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2005, 10:35:34 AM »

bull.  This 'bad timing' mentality is retarded.  His message reached a lot of viewers, as did the money raised by him and the others at that benefit.  Maybe you like seeing the same message regurgitated over and over by random celebrities and feel that by going off the script Kanye was somehow neglecting his responsibilities - well then let me row a canoe in a New Orleans flood-high river of my tears for you.

But, for just a second, let's pretend that there was some other outlet for Kanye West to say what he did.  What, you want him to kick out a single about this?  You want him to go on an interview about the hurricane and say it then? You want him to wait a few weeks for a few dozen more people to die before he calls the government out on this bull, or should he do it at his first public opportunity?  Would you wait?  If so, YOU are the one who's criticism is at an inopportune time.
Quote

I contest your point that his message struck him with a lot of potential contributors & made money for the cause. He just stirred up controversy & alienated 1/2 of the whites in America. You're living in a fantasy world if you think that all of a sudden Red Cross' phones started ringing off the hook with donation pledges as soon as Kanye was awkwardly yanked off the air.

When did I want him to say it?! Well, my vote is for never. Even though I don't agree with a lot doughboy said, he's right that this is the same old swan song. When in doubt, complain about racism. I agree that Bush hasn't handled this well, but just throwing around the phrase "Bush doesn't care about black people" isn't going to open people's eyes. It just sounds like another whiney cop out (b/c it is). Money makes the world go round. Any delay in responding to this disaster by the Bush administration is centered around money. Everyone who had a dime to their name got the heck out of there. Those that are left are dirt poor. Theoretically, each individual in a democracy should matter as much as everyone else. But, when you are talking about those that don't pay taxes, don't vote, do receive gov't subsidies, etc they simply don't count as much as the rich. Yes, those that are poor in that area are mainly minorities. How did it get like that? Well, that's an argument for another day (& I will still contest that race is more of a sufficient than a necessary condition). But, if you want to complain, talk about it in terms that everyone can understand: money. Then maybe you won't alienate as many people ass that no talent ass clown Kanye did.
'08 graduate of Brooklyn Law

...The Dude abides...