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Author Topic: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds  (Read 4173 times)

InVinoVeritas

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Re: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2005, 03:24:55 PM »
so you interpret him as saying that to mean repairing and shoring up the levees wouldn't protect NO from flood damage? 

as for holland, what part of the website are you citing to say that the dutch don't offer modern ideas about minimizing flood damange?

no, i read his statement that the way to protect NO is through the natural wetlands.

that's what i found about holland in a hurry.  it just says they still, despite your statement of them knowing how to deal with it, have to deal with flooding from the sea, no?


but that's not saying that the wetlands are the only way.  to wit, even when the wetlands were largely in tact (e.g. beginning of hte 20th century), NO still have levees in place to protect the city from flooding.  i think it's a bit of a stretch to interpret the guy's statement to say that the levees offer no protection at all.

and speaking of wetlands, it doesn't speak well about the administration's efforts to restore these natural barriers when in 2003 policies enacted by Bush Sr. and continued through the Clinton administration to restore and protect wetland areas were reversed. 

as for holland, yes, they do have to deal with flooding from the sea, but they're doing it sucessfully, i.e. the risk of catastrphic flooding to Rotterdam (an important commercial center much like NO) is minimized.

of course he does.  i hold him responsile every time i hit a pothole in the road.  don't you? 

EDIT: and back to the idea of you people not being happy with what he does. Since the last time he listened to his advisors, whether they were acting on bad intelligence or not, y'all have wanted to crucify him. when does he ever do anything right in your eyes?

actually i blame my mayor for not fixing potholes in a reasonable amount time.  i don't pretend to think that the president is ultimately responsible for potholes on my local roads.  however, i do think it's reasonable to hold the president responsible for those things that are clearly under federal jurisdiction, i.e. US Army Corps of Engineer-controlled canals and levees.

PresClay_00

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Re: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2005, 03:28:30 PM »
so which is it vino, you're gonna say they don't offer help in deflecting storms or blame bush for not building them back up?

hell, i bet he started the storm off the African coast just so this whole thing would get going

InVinoVeritas

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Re: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2005, 03:33:27 PM »
so which is it vino, you're gonna say they don't offer help in deflecting storms or blame bush for not building them back up?

hell, i bet he started the storm off the African coast just so this whole thing would get going

what are you talking about, the wetlands?  yes, they do offer help to buffer the devastating effects of a storm surge.  but are they the only things that provide protection?  clearly  not.

if you want to believe W started the hurricane go ahead.  some people choose to believe that hurricanes are sent to gay pride parades as punishment.  i think both positions are ludicrous, although i'm guessing you're being sarcastic.

PresClay_00

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Re: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2005, 03:36:52 PM »
actually i blame my mayor for not fixing potholes in a reasonable amount time.  i don't pretend to think that the president is ultimately responsible for potholes on my local roads.  however, i do think it's reasonable to hold the president responsible for those things that are clearly under federal jurisdiction, i.e. US Army Corps of Engineer-controlled canals and levees.


i've gotten busy again, but think of how much money comes from the fed govt for road maintenance.  that means DoT.  that means exec dept.  that means under Bush's watch.  that means he's ultimately responsible for their decisions.  so go ahead, you have my blessing and permission to start cussing him when you run over a pothole.

amarain

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Re: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2005, 03:39:48 PM »
the guy who managed the levee system said, "It would take $2.5 billion to build a Category 5 protection system, and we're talking about tens of billions in losses, all that lost productivity, and so many lost lives and injuries and personal trauma you'll never get over," Mr. Naomi said. "People will be scarred for life by this event." 

i don't think it's proposterous to suggst that spending $2.5 billion to prevent against $20 billion in damage is a prudent course of action.

we live in a risky world, but here are ways to mitigate the risk of catastrophic damage.  the threshold for undertaking preventative measures should not be 100% certainty that all damage will be prevented.  that's ludicrous.  we'd never do anything to protect ourselves. this is why risk management is important.  we can rarely completely eliminate risk, but there are plenty of reasonable ways to minimize whatever risks are present; those are the things prudent people do.

the 100% figure came from her wanting to lay the blame solely at bush's feet.  she would probably have been pissed if one drop got through.

 ::) I never said it was 100% Bush's fault. Where are you getting that from, exactly?

Are you saying instead that it's 0% Bush's fault? Is there no middle ground? Or is he immune from any responsibility, regardless of any mistakes he might make?

As I said before, there's probably nothing that would have completely averted this disaster. But there are some things that could have mitigated it, possibly avoided some of the death and destruction. And I think that we should look critically at the mistakes that were made and hold those people responsible.

But I forgot, most Bush supporters really aren't big on personal responsibility, especially not for people in the government.

InVinoVeritas

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Re: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds
« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2005, 03:41:14 PM »
actually i blame my mayor for not fixing potholes in a reasonable amount time.  i don't pretend to think that the president is ultimately responsible for potholes on my local roads.  however, i do think it's reasonable to hold the president responsible for those things that are clearly under federal jurisdiction, i.e. US Army Corps of Engineer-controlled canals and levees.


i've gotten busy again, but think of how much money comes from the fed govt for road maintenance. that means DoT. that means exec dept. that means under Bush's watch. that means he's ultimately responsible for their decisions. so go ahead, you have my blessing and permission to start cussing him when you run over a pothole.

but i think the vast majority of that money is used for things like the interstate highway system, bridges and subways.  in any case, the day that the Army Corps of Engineers is tasked with fixing potholes in the roads that i travel will be the day i curse W everytime i run over a pothole.  but since today the Chicago department of transportation is in charge of fixing potholes on my local roads, i'll stick to cursing Mayor Daley.

PresClay_00

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Re: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds
« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2005, 03:41:40 PM »
Bush just assumed it wouldn't happen on his watch, so hey, no big deal to cut the funding.

i think this is where i took that tone from

amarain

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Re: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds
« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2005, 03:41:43 PM »
This is a different topic, but I thought it was interesting that the very conservative New Hampshire Union Leader is criticizing Bush for his total lack of leadership in the wake of Katrina.

gailrules

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Re: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds
« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2005, 03:43:52 PM »
Oh please.

Give it a rest.

jsia

amarain

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Re: Interesting article about New Orleans and Federal Funds
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2005, 03:44:36 PM »
Bush just assumed it wouldn't happen on his watch, so hey, no big deal to cut the funding.

i think this is where i took that tone from

That's a pretty huge leap from a critical tone to saying I think he should be held 100% responsible for everything.