Law School Discussion

ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2016, 01:02:25 AM »
No, in CA we have lots of successful CBE grads working as DAs, PDs, Main St lawyers, etc. I meet them all the time, it's not that unusual. I don't know if you're in CA or not, but I think people from other states don't quite get the CBE thing. They equate it with unaccredited/online, etc, which it's not.

Thank you :)

I am considering enrolling into the CBE school as a part timer. At the most I be enrolled into only three courses. While attending school, my plans are to either begin volunteering at local courts in order to have experience and networking.

Or I plan on going back to my previous established career as a back up plan, just in case. I had an established career before I began law school. Once accepted, I left work. I have the option of going back and resuming if I choose to.

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2016, 02:37:38 PM »
I graduated from a four-year CBE school and passed the bar while holding down a career position in insurance underwriting. My goal was singular: Get the License. Between my age and my unwillingness to move, the benefits of an ABA pedigree didn't justify the cost, especially in light of the fact that I had no intent or desire to abandon my career for the salary of a junior associate at a law firm. Overall, becoming a blue collar, CBE-educated attorney has been a very positive experience for me. I have everything that I hoped to get from becoming an attorney - along with all the unanticipated consequences that they don't put in the brochure. Although I have no bragging rights among ABA-educated attorneys, I nevertheless have their cooperation and respect when negotiating transactions. Nobody gives a rip where you went to law school if you aren't applying for a job. Also, I was able to pay cash for my tuition and expenses, so I have none of the debt that burdens many law students at the end of the process. But if my goal had been to get a job in Biglaw, a CBE school would have been a waste of money. Make no mistake.

To set the record straight, CBE students do not have to take the FYLSE (baby bar), so long as they successfully complete the first year. However, those who fail to make the minimum required GPA (2.0 or better in each of the core subjects) may be required to pass the FYLSE before the school will allow them to continue to the second year. Alternately, the school might allow an unsuccessful student who got very close to simply retake the first year. It's up to the school. Note that those who do really poorly may be told to go away for a couple of years and consider whether becoming a lawyer is truly feasible.

OP, if you didn't do well in an ABA environment, I would caution you against thinking that a CBE school is going to be any easier unless you don't have to work. CBE schools teach the same material from the same casebooks and administer the same kind of exams that you would find in ABA schools. CBE schools are filled with working adults who are striving to achieve a goal. The competition for valedictorian isn't as fierce as it would be at Stanford, but most of the people in the class are very bright and extremely driven. They wouldn't be there, otherwise. And I can say without equivocation, becoming an attorney through a CBE-accredited school was the hardest fecking thing I have ever done in my life. Comparatively speaking, my four-year tour of duty in the Marines was a picnic.

Just some food for thought. Good luck.

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2016, 04:57:58 PM »
Solid advice from Duncan and yea many law students over complicate first year. Really that is the hardest part of law school is not letting your mind run wild and using time efficiently. My first semester for example I probably spent 60-70 hours a week studying, but didn't do practice problems or study correctly and that was my worst semester.

I studied less after first semester, and did much better.

As to the CBE v. ABA debate law school is f'ing hard it will not be any easier at a CBE school. In fact, I think getting through a CBE school is probably harder than an ABA school.

At the end of the day if you pass the California Bar you will have opportunities, but it will not be a cakewalk.

Good luck to you.











Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2016, 09:30:57 PM »
If you aren't going to be willing to move or even change jobs.........why even bother with the degree LET ALONE the licensed???

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2016, 02:59:31 AM »
I graduated from a four-year CBE school and passed the bar while holding down a career position in insurance underwriting. My goal was singular: Get the License. Between my age and my unwillingness to move, the benefits of an ABA pedigree didn't justify the cost, especially in light of the fact that I had no intent or desire to abandon my career for the salary of a junior associate at a law firm. Overall, becoming a blue collar, CBE-educated attorney has been a very positive experience for me. I have everything that I hoped to get from becoming an attorney - along with all the unanticipated consequences that they don't put in the brochure. Although I have no bragging rights among ABA-educated attorneys, I nevertheless have their cooperation and respect when negotiating transactions. Nobody gives a rip where you went to law school if you aren't applying for a job. Also, I was able to pay cash for my tuition and expenses, so I have none of the debt that burdens many law students at the end of the process. But if my goal had been to get a job in Biglaw, a CBE school would have been a waste of money. Make no mistake.

To set the record straight, CBE students do not have to take the FYLSE (baby bar), so long as they successfully complete the first year. However, those who fail to make the minimum required GPA (2.0 or better in each of the core subjects) may be required to pass the FYLSE before the school will allow them to continue to the second year. Alternately, the school might allow an unsuccessful student who got very close to simply retake the first year. It's up to the school. Note that those who do really poorly may be told to go away for a couple of years and consider whether becoming a lawyer is truly feasible.

OP, if you didn't do well in an ABA environment, I would caution you against thinking that a CBE school is going to be any easier unless you don't have to work. CBE schools teach the same material from the same casebooks and administer the same kind of exams that you would find in ABA schools. CBE schools are filled with working adults who are striving to achieve a goal. The competition for valedictorian isn't as fierce as it would be at Stanford, but most of the people in the class are very bright and extremely driven. They wouldn't be there, otherwise. And I can say without equivocation, becoming an attorney through a CBE-accredited school was the hardest fecking thing I have ever done in my life. Comparatively speaking, my four-year tour of duty in the Marines was a picnic.

Just some food for thought. Good luck.

Thank you so much.

I would like to reiterate that I am not looking for the easier road... I am looking into the CBE program because I was kicked out of an ABA school and in order to re-apply to another ABA school there is a wait period. I do not want to wait... Thus, the only likelihood of attaining that degree is through a CBE... (am I wrong?)

Is there any possibility that if I am accepted to a CBE program I can transfer out to an ABA?

I also am curious to know of what your "unanticipated consequences that they don't put in the brochure" were? (if you don't mind)

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2016, 05:38:14 PM »
I want to tell you that I heard of SOMEONE who ONCE did a transfer but I fear that would give you false hope of the "if I try hard enough" and "because I am THAT ONE special snowflake".........so pretend that I didn't tell you that (its true, but super rare, and NO you WOULD NOT be it)

If you want to be ABA, go ABA

But if you aren't willing to move, and those near you don't want you, they won't suddenly want you later with CBE credits.
Consider Whittier if you want ABA (They take people that even Cooley kicks out and says no to) but if that is beyond your safety zone of geographic convenience...then ABA is not going to happen for you.

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2016, 10:35:42 PM »
If you aren't going to be willing to move or even change jobs.........why even bother with the degree LET ALONE the licensed???

Fair question, Matthias. In the world of insurance underwriting, there are laymen and then there are corporate attorneys. The math is easy.

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2016, 08:00:19 PM »
If you aren't going to be willing to move or even change jobs.........why even bother with the degree LET ALONE the licensed???

Fair question, Matthias. In the world of insurance underwriting, there are laymen and then there are corporate attorneys. The math is easy.
ok, what is your lsat score.........its a factor in this

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2016, 08:30:02 PM »
ok, what is your lsat score.........its a factor in this

Stop being silly. It's completely irrelevant and you know it. He's a licensed attorney in CA. Are you?

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2016, 08:40:04 PM »
Scorpio:

Don't matriculate at any law school (ABA, CBE, whatever) that you are not prepared to graduate from. You will likely not be able to transfer.

Secondly, Duncanjp's post offers good insight. The CBE schools are, I believe, best suited for working adults who want to change careers. I know plenty of successful attorneys who went this route. They are not partners at O'Melveny, but they are successful practicing lawyers.

I think the CBE route does probably require a greater degree of self-motivation and hustle. You can't necessarily rely on a pedigree, so you've got to make it happen yourself. Most 25 year olds can't do that, which is why I think it's a model best suited for those with more experience.

Take some time to research your local legal market. See what's available, what the competition is like, and who gets hired. Find out what it takes to start a solo practice, talk to graduates of that school. Be realistic and objective in your research.