Law School Discussion

ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school

ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« on: February 16, 2016, 09:28:49 PM »
Hello all,

I have been academically dismissed from an ABA T4 law school. Now before anyone tells me to reconsider my career and how I shouldn't bother with law schools, I do not want to waste your time, nor mine by reading the nonsense.

I want to know if attending a CBE law school is my only way back. My plan is to never move out of California, I would not mind a district attorney position, nor would I mind opening my own small private practice.

I was dismissed after my first semester for a low GPA and failure to achieve foundational points in some classes.

Are there any success stories about people graduating from CBE schools? In other words is there any hope?

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2016, 10:18:46 PM »
I wouldn't do it, but IF you insist on doing it go to a regionally accredited one to get financial aide at least
http://www.jfku.edu

but honestly, Cooley takes everyone, go to Cooley before you go CBE

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2016, 11:33:06 PM »
I wouldn't do it, but IF you insist on doing it go to a regionally accredited one to get financial aide at least
http://www.jfku.edu

but honestly, Cooley takes everyone, go to Cooley before you go CBE

Thank you for the response! JFK is too far from where I am located and Cooley is not in California?
Why wouldn't you do it?

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2016, 11:10:36 PM »
I wouldn't do it, but IF you insist on doing it go to a regionally accredited one to get financial aide at least
http://www.jfku.edu

but honestly, Cooley takes everyone, go to Cooley before you go CBE

Thank you for the response! JFK is too far from where I am located and Cooley is not in California?
Why wouldn't you do it?
Where are you at? What areas are you willing to relocate to?
Do you realize that they give living expenses to cover living costs?

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2016, 02:07:53 PM »
I want to know if attending a CBE law school is my only way back.

No, it's not the only way back. You can reapply to ABA schools after a certain amount of time (can't remember how long). Whether or not you get in is dependent on a lot of variables. Obviously, it will be harder to get back in.

Here's the thing, though: it won't be any easier at a CBE school. They pretty much follow the same curriculum as any ABA school. It's not an "easier" path, necessarily. Unless you can figure out where you went wrong the first time, and have a plan in place to overcome that problem and succeed, I'm not sure that going to a CBE makes any sense.

I'm not sure if CBE schools have a required waiting period if you're applying following an academic dismissal. Contact them to find out.

My plan is to never move out of California, I would not mind a district attorney position, nor would I mind opening my own small private practice.

It's good that you don't want to leave CA, as the CBE degree is not as portable.

DA/PD/City Attorney, and pretty much all other govt jobs are VERY competitive right now. I worked at a govt office for a while, and they were flooded with applicants. It's difficult to get a DA gig even if you go to respected ABA school, especially in big cities. People from CBE schools do get hired as DAs, but it's rare unless they have connections or previous experience. Most of the CBE govt lawyers I've met were hired a long time ago when those jobs were less competitive.

Opening your own solo practice is a more realistic (and still difficult) proposition.

Are there any success stories about people graduating from CBE schools? In other words is there any hope?

Sure, there are plenty of successful CBE grads, but you need to be realistic about the job opportunities. You will have fewer options, it will be harder to get internships, etc.

I'm not a snob when it comes to CBE. I think they offer a great option for the right kind of student. I've known some really good CBE lawyers. In my opinion, CBE is best suited for someone who already has a career and wants to broaden into law. If that person already has contacts and solid job experience, and knows how to hustle, then CBE may be fine.

For someone who is young and inexperienced, and is going to need to rely on their pedigree more, CBE is probably not the best choice.

Be realistic about your options, let that guide the decisions. 

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2016, 06:10:42 PM »
There are tons of success stories from California Bar Schools. The Mayor of LA went to a law school that was neither ABA nor California Bar Accredited and he has a lot more power and influence than I do as an ABA law school grad.

I also had a friend at my ABA school that was dismissed, she was smart, but did not take school seriously first semester at all and she performed poorly. However, after getting hit by reality she reached an agreement with the school that if she passed the Baby Bar exam that they would let her back in. She passed the baby bar and went on to graduate one year after me and passed the bar on her first try and she has a great job now. So you can be readmitted, but there was clearly a major issue that you need to rectify, which can be done, but you need to be honest with yourself.

As to the question regarding CBA schools many do well in particular locations. For example Cal-Northern in Chico is a great place to attend if you want to live in Chico, because there are no other schools in the area, which means there is a huge lack of lawyers in the area.

Or Monterey College of Law as well as San Joaquin College of Law also work well if you want to live in those areas.

So in summary, yes there are success stories and it is certainly possible you could be one of them. However, if you were dismissed in your first semester you need to really analyze what you went wrong. If you attend a Cal Bar school you will have to take the Baby Bar after 1L and if you don't pass your out. (At least that is my understanding as a random guy on the internet, which means nothing).

Furthermore, you will have to pass the California Bar and I can tell you 1L is a cakewalk compared to the bar exam and if you struggled with 1L and do not figure out what went wrong, even if you graduate you may not pass the bar, which is one of the major cons of Cal Bar schools the bar passage rates are terrible. People do pass from Cal-Bar schools and people do fail from ABA schools, and the test is just a terrible experience for anyone.

The real thing you need to do is figure out what went wrong. You either did not put the effort in, did not understand how to approach law school, or maybe your mind just doesn't work the way it needs to for law school.  I am sure it is probably lack of effort or understanding how to approach law school, which can be fixed, but you need to figure out the issue.

So yes you can succeed, but you will need to take a good hard look at yourself and ways you can improve.

Good luck!



Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2016, 09:48:35 PM »
There are tons of success stories from California Bar Schools. The Mayor of LA went to a law school that was neither ABA nor California Bar Accredited and he has a lot more power and influence than I do as an ABA law school grad.

I also had a friend at my ABA school that was dismissed, she was smart, but did not take school seriously first semester at all and she performed poorly. However, after getting hit by reality she reached an agreement with the school that if she passed the Baby Bar exam that they would let her back in. She passed the baby bar and went on to graduate one year after me and passed the bar on her first try and she has a great job now. So you can be readmitted, but there was clearly a major issue that you need to rectify, which can be done, but you need to be honest with yourself.

As to the question regarding CBA schools many do well in particular locations. For example Cal-Northern in Chico is a great place to attend if you want to live in Chico, because there are no other schools in the area, which means there is a huge lack of lawyers in the area.

Or Monterey College of Law as well as San Joaquin College of Law also work well if you want to live in those areas.

So in summary, yes there are success stories and it is certainly possible you could be one of them. However, if you were dismissed in your first semester you need to really analyze what you went wrong. If you attend a Cal Bar school you will have to take the Baby Bar after 1L and if you don't pass your out. (At least that is my understanding as a random guy on the internet, which means nothing).

Furthermore, you will have to pass the California Bar and I can tell you 1L is a cakewalk compared to the bar exam and if you struggled with 1L and do not figure out what went wrong, even if you graduate you may not pass the bar, which is one of the major cons of Cal Bar schools the bar passage rates are terrible. People do pass from Cal-Bar schools and people do fail from ABA schools, and the test is just a terrible experience for anyone.

The real thing you need to do is figure out what went wrong. You either did not put the effort in, did not understand how to approach law school, or maybe your mind just doesn't work the way it needs to for law school.  I am sure it is probably lack of effort or understanding how to approach law school, which can be fixed, but you need to figure out the issue.

So yes you can succeed, but you will need to take a good hard look at yourself and ways you can improve.

Good luck!
humans have walked on the moon too.........

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2016, 06:20:59 PM »
No, in CA we have lots of successful CBE grads working as DAs, PDs, Main St lawyers, etc. I meet them all the time, it's not that unusual. I don't know if you're in CA or not, but I think people from other states don't quite get the CBE thing. They equate it with unaccredited/online, etc, which it's not.

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2016, 12:46:48 AM »
I want to know if attending a CBE law school is my only way back.

No, it's not the only way back. You can reapply to ABA schools after a certain amount of time (can't remember how long). Whether or not you get in is dependent on a lot of variables. Obviously, it will be harder to get back in.

Here's the thing, though: it won't be any easier at a CBE school. They pretty much follow the same curriculum as any ABA school. It's not an "easier" path, necessarily. Unless you can figure out where you went wrong the first time, and have a plan in place to overcome that problem and succeed, I'm not sure that going to a CBE makes any sense.

I'm not sure if CBE schools have a required waiting period if you're applying following an academic dismissal. Contact them to find out.



My plan is to never move out of California, I would not mind a district attorney position, nor would I mind opening my own small private practice.

It's good that you don't want to leave CA, as the CBE degree is not as portable.

DA/PD/City Attorney, and pretty much all other govt jobs are VERY competitive right now. I worked at a govt office for a while, and they were flooded with applicants. It's difficult to get a DA gig even if you go to respected ABA school, especially in big cities. People from CBE schools do get hired as DAs, but it's rare unless they have connections or previous experience. Most of the CBE govt lawyers I've met were hired a long time ago when those jobs were less competitive.

Opening your own solo practice is a more realistic (and still difficult) proposition.

Are there any success stories about people graduating from CBE schools? In other words is there any hope?

Sure, there are plenty of successful CBE grads, but you need to be realistic about the job opportunities. You will have fewer options, it will be harder to get internships, etc.

I'm not a snob when it comes to CBE. I think they offer a great option for the right kind of student. I've known some really good CBE lawyers. In my opinion, CBE is best suited for someone who already has a career and wants to broaden into law. If that person already has contacts and solid job experience, and knows how to hustle, then CBE may be fine.

For someone who is young and inexperienced, and is going to need to rely on their pedigree more, CBE is probably not the best choice.

Be realistic about your options, let that guide the decisions.

I am being as realistic as possible, I want to continue Law School. Had I been given a second chance at improving I am almost certain that I would be able to fit the standards my previous school wanted from me. The CBE schools standards are different than my previous schools.

The ABA school required not only to be in "good standing" but additionally earn foundational points for two courses above a 2.5 GPA. A CBE school does not have the point system.

I took the initiative in dropping down to part time because I learned that six courses was too much for me to deal with as a first time law student... I wasn't given the chance to alter my mistakes in the second semester. They immediately dismissed me well into the 5th week of the second semester.

I don't want to waste my time either by putting off some "cool off two years" to re-enroll into another ABA school.

I have contacted a CBE school that is willing to accept me if I provide an essay explaining where I messed up. This school is willing to credit the courses I received 2.0 and above in. I can transfer half the courses I did well in.

I am not looking for an "easier path" quite frankly I think the position I'm in right now is going to make my CBE experience a "harder path". I have to prove my worthiness, in a sense. I have to overcome the emotional struggle I went through with my dismissal. I don't think this will be easier. I just think that a CBE school is my only way in without wasting too much time.

Re: ABA Law School student dismissed- considering CBE school
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2016, 12:57:20 AM »
There are tons of success stories from California Bar Schools. The Mayor of LA went to a law school that was neither ABA nor California Bar Accredited and he has a lot more power and influence than I do as an ABA law school grad.

I also had a friend at my ABA school that was dismissed, she was smart, but did not take school seriously first semester at all and she performed poorly. However, after getting hit by reality she reached an agreement with the school that if she passed the Baby Bar exam that they would let her back in. She passed the baby bar and went on to graduate one year after me and passed the bar on her first try and she has a great job now. So you can be readmitted, but there was clearly a major issue that you need to rectify, which can be done, but you need to be honest with yourself.

As to the question regarding CBA schools many do well in particular locations. For example Cal-Northern in Chico is a great place to attend if you want to live in Chico, because there are no other schools in the area, which means there is a huge lack of lawyers in the area.

Or Monterey College of Law as well as San Joaquin College of Law also work well if you want to live in those areas.

So in summary, yes there are success stories and it is certainly possible you could be one of them. However, if you were dismissed in your first semester you need to really analyze what you went wrong. If you attend a Cal Bar school you will have to take the Baby Bar after 1L and if you don't pass your out. (At least that is my understanding as a random guy on the internet, which means nothing).



Furthermore, you will have to pass the California Bar and I can tell you 1L is a cakewalk compared to the bar exam and if you struggled with 1L and do not figure out what went wrong, even if you graduate you may not pass the bar, which is one of the major cons of Cal Bar schools the bar passage rates are terrible. People do pass from Cal-Bar schools and people do fail from ABA schools, and the test is just a terrible experience for anyone.

The real thing you need to do is figure out what went wrong. You either did not put the effort in, did not understand how to approach law school, or maybe your mind just doesn't work the way it needs to for law school.  I am sure it is probably lack of effort or understanding how to approach law school, which can be fixed, but you need to figure out the issue.

So yes you can succeed, but you will need to take a good hard look at yourself and ways you can improve.

Good luck!

Thank you for the reply. I know what went wrong in my first semester. I took it seriously, but I was over doing it. I don't know if that makes any sense. I over studied in the wrong ways. I did not know how to approach the material. I didn't outline properly, I didn't utilize office hours in order to strengthen my rule statements, much of my rule statements were incomplete, I just did a very sloppy job. I was too over worked with 6 classes, however when I learned of my grades during midterms (All fails). I improved for finals on half the courses, earning above 2.0 grades... I had the lowest grade in contracts and my final grade was a 2.3. I also improved well in Contracts, too. I just could not improve on everything.

I don't want any sympathy for my mistakes. I just want to know if there are success stories, because I hate to say this but before I began my studies I looked down on CBE schools and now I'm in a position where I feel like this is my only hope...

I just know that I would do things differently, had I stayed 2nd semester.

As far as the baby bar I would be entering the CBE school as a special student, I don't think I have to take that exam? (I may be wrong) The CBE school is willing to transfer in the courses I did well in.

Correct me if I'm wrong, though.