Law School Discussion

Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?

Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?
« on: August 21, 2015, 02:52:39 PM »
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-08-20/are-lawyers-getting-dumber-

Friend just posted this and thought the board could use a new topic.

I think part of the statistical dropoff has to do with over-enrollment between 2006-2009 it seems like admission rates were at an all time high due to the financail crisis etc. Then everybody bitched & moaned that there were to many lawyers no the student body is a little less qualified and this trend will continue as the enrollment will get so low that there will not be enoug lawyers then to many will jump on the band-wagon etc.

Just my two cents. Plus there are 10 practice MBE questions for anyone dying to take their chance on the bar again.

Re: Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2015, 08:59:44 PM »
Interesting link, but 10 questions will likely have no major effect.

As for the article, its boomer rants. They made the exam harder. Its the same mentality you get when they say "I paid for law school by working summers and had no debt" Really gramps? How much was tuition? It sure has risen more than inflation. Just like the "I had a job day one even before I graduated" really old top? Gee, tell me more about how little you know about compare and contrast...............

But yeah admissions are lower and more lower tier schools out there. That much is true. But those at Harvard are no dumber today than those from Harvard when boomers were enrolled listening to Madonna and getting excited about having theater tickets to Top Gun.


Re: Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2015, 08:05:55 AM »
I don't think they made the exam harder. The NCBE is right to point at significant declines in LSAT scores, which is one of the best predictors of bar success.

loki13

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Re: Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2015, 08:20:32 AM »
"But yeah admissions are lower and more lower tier schools out there. That much is true. But those at Harvard are no dumber today than those from Harvard when boomers were enrolled listening to Madonna and getting excited about having theater tickets to Top Gun."

You're partially correct but draw the wrong inference. LSAT scores and uGPAs for average candidates are dropping, as are the number of overall applicants. But, for the most part, the number of schools has stayed the same.

So, sure, your average Harvard Law Grad will be roughly the same. But it's at outside of the T100 where those differences are the most acute. The incoming students, on average, performed worse on the LSAT and in UG (per uGPA). Check out some historical figures for random schools from 2010-14 for incoming classes... it's not pretty.

The test isn't any different- it's the people sitting for it. It's natural supply and demand. The schools need to fill seats, so they are lowering their standards. Ideally, law school will become a more attractive option again, and this problem will self-correct. Or, in another ideal solution, many of the worst law schools will just go under.

Re: Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2015, 08:02:47 PM »
"the test isn't any different" It has changed SIGNIFICANTLY (even in the last few years) heck that's like saying that the GED didn't get harder (it did too) its par for the course.

As for the other schools, they didn't exist back then for the most part (especially not the online ones, kind of hard to have online schools pre internet)

loki13

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Re: Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2015, 10:27:33 AM »
"the test isn't any different" It has changed SIGNIFICANTLY (even in the last few years) heck that's like saying that the GED didn't get harder (it did too) its par for the course.

As for the other schools, they didn't exist back then for the most part (especially not the online ones, kind of hard to have online schools pre internet)

Snakes formerly known as Pie-

Your antecedent is unclear. I assume you mean that the LSAT has changed significantly to be made harder. Since you have made this assertion, please provide a citation that I might verify it. While doing so, please provide an explanation as to why, concurrent with the decline in applicant LSAT scores, and overall test takers, and overall applications, there has been a decline in applicant uGPAs (while, overall, uGPAs have been trending up).

Re: Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2015, 08:38:20 PM »
you start a separate argument and then ask me to provide citations???
 ???

sometimes I forget who I am talking to here

loki13

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Re: Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2015, 05:25:30 AM »
"you start a separate argument and then ask me to provide citations???"

I think you are unclear on the concept. I do not "ask" for things you cannot provide. That was a very polite way of saying you are a fool.

Re: Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2015, 08:02:40 PM »
"you start a separate argument and then ask me to provide citations???"

I think you are unclear on the concept. I do not "ask" for things you cannot provide. That was a very polite way of saying you are a fool.
well actually you did ask (you fool)
and more ad hominem
knee jerk city

loki13

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Re: Are Lawyers Getting Dumber Aritcle?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 05:38:05 AM »
"you start a separate argument and then ask me to provide citations???"

I think you are unclear on the concept. I do not "ask" for things you cannot provide. That was a very polite way of saying you are a fool.
well actually you did ask (you fool)
and more ad hominem
knee jerk city

Snakes formerly known as Pie,

You still seem to be unclear. Here, let me show you-

"Plaintiff failed to provide a citation for any facts or law alleged in its motion, or attach a supporting affidavit as required. This curious omission is indicative of the overall strength of Plaintiff's argument."

After a while, you get cured of the whole, "Derp, lying liar, derp, ad hom" style of argumentation. Or maybe not! Some people never learn.