Law School Discussion

POTUS

loki13

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Re: POTUS
« Reply #500 on: July 12, 2016, 10:03:42 AM »
Maintain-

Do you really want to ask Spiced Troll? As in, do you think his answers are representative of the overall Sanders vote?

In the more, ahem, tied-to-reality, living on things other than popcorn community, I would look to the following-

1. Past is prologue. Whenever there is an interesting fight within a party, you end up seeing those who declare, "I will never vote for the other person." (Remember the PUMAs - party unity my ... behind, who supported Clinton and not Obama?). But the majority eventually comes back to the fold. Heck, even *Trump* is getting a fair amount of GOP support, and he's ... well, not a typical GOP candidate. After all is said and done, support for the party (or dislike of the other party) counts for more than the intra-party differences.

2. The nature of Sanders' support. Yes, he did attract a lot of "super liberal" folks, and those people will be appeased by the changes made to the Democratic platform. But a fair amount of support in the primaries came from those who disliked Obama (yeah, I know) - see, for example, his victory in West Virginia. He attracted not just supporters, but those who were simply protesting - and Sanders would not have received their votes in the general, anyway (unless you think a New England socialist is going to win West Virginia is the general). This isn't to discount the fact that he identified a key Democratic constituency and motivated them, but it also speaks to the fact that this constituency is over-represented in the actual support he received.

Anyway, Sanders will campaign with and for Clinton and appear at the convention. You'll see the usual rates of people returning to the fold; cf. the rates for the Clinton/Obama race.

Re: POTUS
« Reply #501 on: July 12, 2016, 06:51:40 PM »
Cinnamon, I have a serious question. This isn't intended as criticism, I'm just genuinely curious.

Since Sanders has officially endorsed Clinton today, and since you are so strongly opposed to Clinton, do you think that:

1) Sanders is a sellout?

and

2) Will you still vote for Sanders given that he has endorsed someone so antithetical to your beliefs?

I'm curious because I wonder how many Sanders supporters must be seriously disappointed by sanders himself.
Don't listen to Loki...........feed the troll...............FEED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: POTUS
« Reply #502 on: July 13, 2016, 10:42:56 AM »
Loki:

I agree that the vast majority of Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton, if grudgingly.

My question is about they view Sanders himself after his endorsement of Clinton. This is anecdotal, but so many of the Sanders supporters I know were as opposed to Clinton as they were to Trump. I think Cinnamon falls into that category.

So, when the guy who they supported so strongly endorses someone who they oppose so strongly, does that change their opinion of Sanders? Do they think he's a sellout, or do they say "Hey, it's politics and the most important thing is defeating Trump!" (Which is essentially Sanders' line).

I'm curious because it seems like there would have to be some cognitive dissonance involved in order for it to NOT change their opinion of Sanders, at least somewhat.

loki13

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Re: POTUS
« Reply #503 on: July 13, 2016, 11:33:07 AM »
Loki:

I agree that the vast majority of Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton, if grudgingly.

My question is about they view Sanders himself after his endorsement of Clinton. This is anecdotal, but so many of the Sanders supporters I know were as opposed to Clinton as they were to Trump. I think Cinnamon falls into that category.

So, when the guy who they supported so strongly endorses someone who they oppose so strongly, does that change their opinion of Sanders? Do they think he's a sellout, or do they say "Hey, it's politics and the most important thing is defeating Trump!" (Which is essentially Sanders' line).

I'm curious because it seems like there would have to be some cognitive dissonance involved in order for it to NOT change their opinion of Sanders, at least somewhat.

Well, I don't think you can easily categorize all Sanders voters, as I alluded to in my earlier post. How they feel about Sanders himself will likely depend on what type of Sanders voters they were to begin with.

There is the old-school, mostly white, left wing of the Democratic party. They either already get it, or will get it.
There are the young people for whom this is their first election. "Politics" and "compromise" is a dirty word, and the idea of losing the battle, but then fighting the war, is a new one. Again, though, I'm not overly worried about them.
Then there are those who were motivated primarily for hatred of Clinton and/or Obama (call them the Spiced Troll / West Virginia voters). To be honest, I don't think they'll come around, and I don't think it was really about Sanders at any point.

It's the second category that's the most interesting to me, and that's the area that Sanders himself will have to work on.

Re: POTUS
« Reply #504 on: July 13, 2016, 02:09:08 PM »
did............did cyn straight up KILL himself!??!?!? (or am I hoping too large?)

Re: POTUS
« Reply #505 on: July 17, 2016, 10:06:06 AM »
What an amazing time.  FBI investigation ended with an indictment without the formal indictment which has confirmed our distrust of Hilliary Clinton.  The first part of the FBI investigation is over but more to come is expected.

Suffice it to say though we were correct about her lies and gross negligence with regard to classified info---which is the second to Las nail in her political coffin.....because us sanders supporters are now dissapoonted that Bernie will not have a shot at the presidency----

Btw....thanks Clinton supporters---you f-ing one party only voters---we have a much greater direction to which we will now follow---
But you simpletons have brought us president Donald trump---a one term president---thanks for giving us the other jackass in the race...

We sanders supporters voice will continue to be a force to be reckoned with as our agent bows to the corporate democratic party---he will continue his fight and could have been a great 3 rf party candidate--- which he WILL be with our now actual protest vote!!!!

there are 3 other options for us...which I will explain later..

But thanks you one party Hillary supporters---thanks for nothing---
We blame you for the rise of trump.......
Assholes!

loki13

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Re: POTUS
« Reply #506 on: July 18, 2016, 08:23:07 AM »
But thanks you one party Hillary supporters---thanks for nothing---
We blame you for the rise of trump.......
Assholes!

U mad bro?

I have to admire your chutzpah*, but blaming Democrats for the rise of Trump is particularly rich. I hate to break the news to you,** but Clinton came in a (very) close second to Obama in 2008 after she was the presumptive nominee, and was the presumptive nominee coming in to this cycle, so her victory, while disappointing to some, was pretty much par for the course.

Despite this, you have been intensely focused on a rather boring election that everyone knew was finished a long time ago (hint- proportional delegates), instead of the bizarre and fascinating rise of Trump(tm), and what it means to the GOP. I would be more worried ... but since you are now predicting a Trump victory, that means that the nation can sleep soundly at night.


*Defined as the ability of a person to kill their parents, and the plead for leniency because they are an orphan. Or, in the alternative, the ability of a person to continue to make 100% wrong popcorn predictions, and then keep spouting off like anyone is doing anything but laugh at him.

**No, I don't. I love it, although with the caveat that you couldn't learn something if it was attached to a semi and it ran you over.

Re: POTUS
« Reply #507 on: July 18, 2016, 10:14:03 AM »
Loki, the well goes a bit deeper than even what cyn wrote as far as Dems creating Trump (and they very much so DID)

Politics are like a pendulum the more you push one way, the more its unavoidable to push back the opposite way until everyone leaves it alone long enough to organically get to where it should be (which in politics is NEVER fyi)

Obama asked for too much too soon. And he continues to do so on his way out.

Same pendulum swinging is why BLM supporters keep shooting cops too. Its all just weight and gravity.

loki13

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Re: POTUS
« Reply #508 on: July 18, 2016, 11:46:47 AM »
Loki, the well goes a bit deeper than even what cyn wrote as far as Dems creating Trump (and they very much so DID)

Politics are like a pendulum the more you push one way, the more its unavoidable to push back the opposite way until everyone leaves it alone long enough to organically get to where it should be (which in politics is NEVER fyi)

Obama asked for too much too soon. And he continues to do so on his way out.

Same pendulum swinging is why BLM supporters keep shooting cops too. Its all just weight and gravity.

That is ... one of the best parodies of #THANKSOBAMA I have ever seen.

That said, Trump (or a Trump-like substance) was a necessary result of the GOP's policies and practices. Simply put, they have engaged in anti-elite, anti-establishment rhetoric, so it should come as no surprise that the elite and the establishment were not able to seize control. They have continuously stoked the fires against politicians, so, again, is it any surprise that a non-politician has seized the levers of power? They tried to harness the fury of nativists and racists, without fully comprehending that these same people might not be as attached to free trade as the GOP is.* They fed off of the anger and resentment of talk radio and Fox News, which allowed short-term electoral success at the expense of long-term electoral stability. And so on.

More importantly, politics is hard. It is the art of the possible, filled with compromise and gradual change. It is not the continual unmet promises of revolution unfilled, with brinkmanship as its lodestone ("We'll repeal Obamacare, and shutdown the government, again, to do so.").  Trump only exploited that which was already there.

The Democrats have 99 problems, but the Trump ain't one.

*This is not, by the way, to say that the GOP is/was nativist and/or racist. But it was perfectly happy to pander to those interests to get their votes.

Re: POTUS
« Reply #509 on: July 18, 2016, 07:19:13 PM »
Here is the thing.  Bernie sanders is not a sellout--he is and always was a representative of "occupy wall street"....so, no matter the agent it is the policies we are interested in "establishing"...the democrats, you know, jackasses who always vote straight party line are the corporate establishment--tho is what we wanted to tear down--and it is coming---this is going to be activated on the local and state level-- that is the focus....
Bernie didn't Suspend his campaign because, frankly it is bigger than him. He said he wont run as a third party and he didn't lie. He kept his word---that smarts because we have now an absentee landlord....but fully understood....we were waiting not for an indictment without the indictment---because its obvious she was negligent and shady based upon the evidence the FBI dug up on her--- she lied and got busted--------her legal problems will continue and that will be fun to continue watching...but I am disengaged in the race now....her problems are not going to end.

She is a lying sack of shite and a crook.

Some inner insight sheds light on our sanders dynamic....

Some of us will vote for Hillary begrudgingly....but not as many as the media will have you think.

But the red of us will go a different direction.
Some, in fact many will vote for trump because Clinton is a warmonger and trump strongly opposed the war in Iraq and didn't think we should have been trying for regime change in lybya---

Get it??? She's a Hawk with a capital H--- no good.
This is a major point that the media will bury.


So, Trump carries Democrat values.
Then there are the dixicrats or Appalachia democrats who are bigots-- not racists--since that is a social construct----straight up bigots.

Trump is a democrat---was a Democrat-- and only switched his party line in recent years.

Hillary as a corporate/wall street shill/warmonger to many of us is worse than trump.....so, suck on that one.

Now, those closer to my heart are going to be voting for Jill Stein because the green party is really in line with bernies message and political agenda....and we will affect state elections....jill stein will be the defacto go to third party ticket..

That was bakes into the cake since before Bernie even announced his candidacy.

Some will be writing in bernies name as protest vote.....in fact the media will bury that story as well.

Eg..lololol....not found in any periodical...lollol...in a group of 39 independents whom I know one third will be writing in bernies name....

Some of us have lost all enthusiasm and will be staying home on election day...they say that if Hillary lovers want her fat ass in the oval office they are going to have to lift her up--dirty underpants and all ON THEIR OWN....good luck with that stench...

So, as you see many Bernie fans dislike Clinton MUCH MUCH more than Trump....

After all, they are both democrats.

Here us a bit of nutmeg for the pasta---Clintons legal issues will continue to grind at her and i think that while time ran out for bernie---time will eventually force her to pay the piper----and I continue to enjoy watching her squirm..

Regardless, we could have had Bernie as our candidate if it weren't for Hillary nose holding dupes...so thank you for giving us Donald trump-- you guys really helped our cause---you pooped in our own house....peee uuuuu!...

Hillary can not win Ohio and she cannot win Florida and she might lose to trump in PA where democrats out number Republicans 2 to 1-----how is that possible?
Hillary has been pandering to Florida for more than 15 years---- but she can't beat the hord of Republicans who will all coming out to deny her the chance to get the keys to the car.....thats enthusiasm in the opposite direction...
Plus Florida has far.more Republicans than democrats.

Trump will get Ohio and Florida no problem and perhaps one or two more swing states and then he is in---goddamnit!!!!

Surely, hopefully "a one termer".

But I still got popcorn and will continue to watch Clintons squirm sessions...errr "interviews"
Because---she a crook.

Oh yes, you all were right Clinton easily won the democratic nomination---- right----she had it wrapped up even before it started....it was so easy for her and clearly that prediction gave her the landslide vote she got right?

The FBI criminal investigation didn't hurt her chances a bit---you guys were right about that too......
LMFAO!!!!