Law School Discussion

Graduation

Re: Graduation
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2015, 10:58:29 PM »
It is absolutely, positively NOT perjury to put an unaccredited JD on your resume. Your resume is not a sworn document.

Filling out an application which states that the information provided is true to the best of your knowledge may be different. Holding yourself out to the public as "Mr. Smith, J.D." may also be prohibited, depending on the state. It depends. Certain states do regulate the use of unaccredited titles/degrees, but I believe the prohibition would only extend to instances where the unrecognized degree is being used in a somewhat deceptive manner. For example, if you were a teacher and you claimed an unaccredited degree in order to get a pay raise, that's probably prohibited.
................not sure you read what I wrote..............reread it. Separate topics.
But YES lies on a job application CAN be perjury (many say it right on them in fact) since it is a signed writing that you are argreeing to be sworn to (it doesn't have to be in court or even directly related to a court case in any way in many states)

Re: Graduation
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2015, 11:01:35 PM »
Honestly, please find me that person that has gone to jail for putting Novus on their resume. That is a golden lawsuit.

Can you provide a link verifying these incarcerated Novus Students? If it has  actually happened I would be fascinated to learn more about it.
HOW would it be a "golden lawsuit" ? HOW?

As for an exact case............read what I wrote.........I know its illegal. I know of people who have been arrested for using fake degrees. Not sure its that exact degree.
But YES, Novus IS listed on the lists of ILLEGAL degrees for certain places (Hint: Texas is one of them)
This isn't anything even  remotely new.

Re: Graduation
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2015, 11:09:57 PM »
I know that we ended up bouncing between a few topics here folks, but if you want an example of someone being arrested for lies on a resume............ok. Here is one. The guy wasn't a lawyer. He wasn't using a fake license. Nothing like that.

And come on now, any 1L knows the difference between "mere puffery" and fraud and/or just doing/using something illegal.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2014/5/21/polk_state_professor.html

WINTER HAVEN --

A Polk State College professor whom authorities say falsely claimed he had a doctorate degree has been arrested and charged with grand theft.

David Scott Broxterman, 55, was arrested Wednesday morning and charged with grand theft over $100,000 and cheating. The State Attorney's Office said he submitted fake transcripts to Polk State claiming he earned a doctorate degree from the University of South Florida in 2007 and that he displayed a forged diploma in his office.

Broxterman's salary from 2009 to 2014 totaled $258,759.71, according to the State Attorney's office. The grand theft charge is based on him collecting the salary under false pretenses.


According to the arrest affidavit, the State Attorney's Office opened an investigation after receiving information that Broxterman did not earn the doctorate degree required for his position.

Polk State first hired Broxterman as an adjunct instructor in 2009, based on his claim he had obtained a PhD in organizational management from USF, and later hired him to the full-time faculty position of business administration professor, the State Attorney's Office said.

Assistant State Attorney Brian Haas said he examined the transcripts Broxterman submitted to Polk State before being hired, compared them to an actual set of USF transcripts, and saw that they were printed in the wrong color and format and included numbers to courses that did not exist.

The State Attorney's Office executed a search warrant of Broxterman's office on May 12 and recovered the diploma, which was easily identified as fake, the arrest affidavit said. According to the affidavit, the diploma had a signature from USF President Judy C. Genshaft that should have been Judy L. Genshaft, the wrong color and placement of the USF seal and the word "Board" misspelled "Baord."

Authorities said Polk State did "everything possible" to cooperate with the investigation.

"Polk State College is a very fine institution of higher learning in our community," Haas said in a news release. "The college has cooperated fully in this investigation and has already taken steps to prevent this from happening again."

Broxterman, who lives in Lakeland, was seemingly well thought of by students.

Its a shock that this man who taught me so much and has done so much for the school is not who he says he is," said Anthony Bates. He was a phenomenal teacher he made sure everything was by the book. We were reading what we were supposed to that we were learning the things we were supposed to regarding organizational structure and how businesses should be ran,


Broxterman had an overall rating of 4.9 out of 5 on the popular website ratemyprofessor.com.

"Talk about a teacher that is actively involved at PSC and (he) has a heart of gold!" one student wrote on the website. "His teaching methods are based on 'selling,' which gives real-life examples to students of what they need in the future! You EARN your grade! If you put the effort, you WILL get your A! Its up to you! I feel honored to meet Dr. B! Truly an inspiration in my life forever."

Broxterman is being held in the Polk County Jail without bond pending his first appearance hearing

Re: Graduation
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2015, 11:19:32 PM »
And as an example of it (and others) being listed as ILLEGAL
http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/index.cfm?objectid=EF4C3C3B-EB44-4381-6673F760B3946FBB

Institutions Whose Degrees are Illegal to Use in Texas

Consonant with its responsibilities under Chapter 61 of the Texas Education Code and rules promulgated pursuant thereto, the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board annually reviews the institutions included on this list.

"Fraudulent or substandard degree" means a degree conferred in Texas in violation of the Texas Education Code; conferred in another state in violation of that state's laws; conferred in another state by an institution that was not accredited by an accreditor recognized by the Coordinating Board and that has not been approved by the Coordinating Board for its degrees to be used in Texas; or conferred outside the United States by an institution that the Coordinating Board determines is not the equivalent of an accredited or authorized degree. (Texas Educational Code, Chapter 61, Section 61.302)

The Texas Penal Code (Section 32.52) prohibits the use of fraudulent or substandard degrees "in a written or oral advertisement or other promotion of a business; or with the intent to: obtain employment; obtain a license or certificate to practice a trade, profession, or occupation; obtain a promotion, a compensation or other benefit, or an increase in compensation or other benefit, in employment or in the practice of a trade, profession, or occupation; obtain admission to an educational program in this state; or gain a position in government with authority over another person, regardless of whether the actor receives compensation for the position." Violation of this law is a Class B misdemeanor.




Re: Graduation
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2015, 01:03:25 AM »
That is not an answer to the question show me Novus Grads arrested.

The professor claimed to go a institution that he never attended. That is fraud, but getting a degree from Novus is not a crime.

Big difference.

You said Novus grads were arrested and went to jail. I really want that story.

Re: Graduation
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2015, 10:12:08 AM »
So to sum it all up if a Novus Law Grad claims to be licensed to practice law and is not then a crime has been committed. Pretending to be licensed when you are not is the unauthorized practice of law and a crime etc. However, even I as an ABA law school graduate licensed in California cannot go into a New York Court and say I am licensed, because I am not licensed in New York and saying I was would be a crime.   A Harvard grad that never passed or took the bar is also not licensed and has as much right to represent someone in court as an unlicensed Novus Grad does. If an unlicensed Harvard grad goes int court and claims to be licensed then the Harvard grad committed a crime.

If a Novus Grad somehow, becomes licensed to practice law in a state then they are licensed to practice law. Whether a Novus grad can obtain a license is a question I can't answer, but I do know that attending a school and putting a school that you actually attended on your resume is not a crime. If you claim that the degree you got from Novus makes you a licensed surgeon, therapist, etc again that would a be a crime, but if attended Novus Law School and graduate from Novus Law School then saying you attended Novus law school is not a crime.

  In all honesty, if a Novus Grad has been arrested, convicted, etc for telling the truth on their resume then I really want to know more about it and please share.

I would not recommend going to an unaccredited school, but you will not go to jail for it. If Novus is accredited by a state bar or something then more power to it, but I don't know anything about the school other than it is not ABA approved. However, there are plenty of successful California Bar School graduates out there and if a Novus Grad gets licensed to practice law then they have as much right as any other attorney in that state to practice law.




Re: Graduation
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2015, 10:56:31 AM »
That is not an answer to the question show me Novus Grads arrested.

The professor claimed to go a institution that he never attended. That is fraud, but getting a degree from Novus is not a crime.

Big difference.

You said Novus grads were arrested and went to jail. I really want that story.
I honestly can't imagine adding more qualifier or having it more spoon fed than as I ACTUALLY WROTE it.
Go back and read it a loop if you want (all you have to do is scroll up)
I NEVER said that they "did" go to jail (just that they can-and I spoon fed an example to go that a ten second google search could find)
Side topic (that I went out of my way to explain were side topics) were brought up on resumes and a few other topics as well (thus some of my other content)

It is that simple.

Re: Graduation
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2015, 10:59:24 AM »
So to sum it all up if a Novus Law Grad claims to be licensed to practice law and is not then a crime has been committed. Pretending to be licensed when you are not is the unauthorized practice of law and a crime etc. However, even I as an ABA law school graduate licensed in California cannot go into a New York Court and say I am licensed, because I am not licensed in New York and saying I was would be a crime.   A Harvard grad that never passed or took the bar is also not licensed and has as much right to represent someone in court as an unlicensed Novus Grad does. If an unlicensed Harvard grad goes int court and claims to be licensed then the Harvard grad committed a crime.

If a Novus Grad somehow, becomes licensed to practice law in a state then they are licensed to practice law. Whether a Novus grad can obtain a license is a question I can't answer, but I do know that attending a school and putting a school that you actually attended on your resume is not a crime. If you claim that the degree you got from Novus makes you a licensed surgeon, therapist, etc again that would a be a crime, but if attended Novus Law School and graduate from Novus Law School then saying you attended Novus law school is not a crime.

  In all honesty, if a Novus Grad has been arrested, convicted, etc for telling the truth on their resume then I really want to know more about it and please share.

I would not recommend going to an unaccredited school, but you will not go to jail for it. If Novus is accredited by a state bar or something then more power to it, but I don't know anything about the school other than it is not ABA approved. However, there are plenty of successful California Bar School graduates out there and if a Novus Grad gets licensed to practice law then they have as much right as any other attorney in that state to practice law.
mentioning that apples grow on trees (as true as that is) doesn't change that they have seeds
.............can't imagine how this is hard for anyone with a GED let alone a JD.

Re: Graduation
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2015, 11:18:20 AM »
Your story involves a Professor who said he attended a University and earned a Doctorate, but he never attended the University or earned a doctorate. He went on to create a forged diploma. That is obviously a crime.

However, attending Novus Law School and saying you attended Novus Law School is a not a crime.

I was actually very interested in learning about Novus Grads being prosecuted for telling the truth on their resume, but it was a pointless exaggeration. The internet is well known for pointless exaggerations and it is probably good for boards like this. 

Seriously, if you do hear of Novus Grads going to jail for saying they attended a school they actually attended please share on this thread.




Re: Graduation
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2015, 12:32:01 PM »
Two points:

1) The FL story is inapplicable because that guy clearly lied about having any degree, not just an unaccredited degree. The intent to deceive was obvious.

2) The TX statute you cited pretty much backs up what I posted earlier: if you use an unaccredited degree to gain pecuniary benefits or to otherwise deceive, then you have committed a crime in certain jurisdictions. In other jurisdictions, it would be totally fine.

Even in TX, however, just listing the degree does not appear to be a crime. You would have to somehow use the title to gain a financial benefit. Don't worry, when you go to law school they will teach you how to read statutory language.