why won't people leave mariah's ethnicity alone?

[jerrica benton]

this isn't entirely about mariah carey, so maybe thread title is deceptive, but i am about the *biggest* mariah carey fan ever, and i was talking to someone about this earlier today...

people love to swear that mariah carey was in denial of the african pt of her heritege during the early pts of her career (until puff daddy, er diddy, came along to escort her into the depths of official blackness in the mid-90s).  they point to her skipping through the fields in a flannel shirt in her early videos and refer to interviews wherein mc denied her ethnicity (interviews no one seems to be able to get ahold of a decade later). 

where did this idea come from?

i wonder if these people are blind.  do they not see the black folks dancing in the fields with mariah in these videos?  or the obligatory chubby black kid in 90% of them?  do they ignore the fact that a recurring theme in her visual repertoire is singing with a black choir in a black church?  the poor thing has even had videos wherein she sports long, braided extensions and a du rag.  and have u seen her entourage?  what else does this woman have to do to let people know she considers herself a pt of black america??

i really feel bad, sometimes, for extremely light skinned or mixed raced blacks bc its like nothing they do is "black enough" for the rest of the world.  i have a cousin who is readily mistaken for white, and she feels the need to enter this sort of black english when she is around other black people (lest she be mistaken for a bourgie b!tch who "thinks shes white").  i've had friends who acted similarly: who insisted on dressing a certain way or speaking certain ways in lieu of a permanent sign that says "I'M BLACK TOO".

why does our society make mixed-race people feel the need to pick and choose this way?

[dbgirl]

I agree with you here.

I've never had a real discussion with anyone about Mariah Carey, but I have long known that she is mixed -- it's pretty obvious by looking at her.
And I think it's sad that people want mixed people to "pick a side."

[Young Esq.]

She's black. If it were the fifties she'd be in the colored only line. Hey Obama is mixed. She is probably blacker than him. I think the issue is more skin tone than anything else. It has nothing to do with being mixed more than it has to do with do you fit the stereotypical physical appearance. It reminds me of the Light Skin v. Dark Skin school daze mentality.

[Lawprofessor]

School Daze.....WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TrojanChispas]

this isn't entirely about mariah carey, so maybe thread title is deceptive, but i am about the *biggest* mariah carey fan ever, and i was talking to someone about this earlier today...

people love to swear that mariah carey was in denial of the african pt of her heritege during the early pts of her career (until puff daddy, er diddy, came along to escort her into the depths of official blackness in the mid-90s).  they point to her skipping through the fields in a flannel shirt in her early videos and refer to interviews wherein mc denied her ethnicity (interviews no one seems to be able to get ahold of a decade later). 

where did this idea come from?

i wonder if these people are blind.  do they not see the black folks dancing in the fields with mariah in these videos?  or the obligatory chubby black kid in 90% of them?  do they ignore the fact that a recurring theme in her visual repertoire is singing with a black choir in a black church?  the poor thing has even had videos wherein she sports long, braided extensions and a du rag.  and have u seen her entourage?  what else does this woman have to do to let people know she considers herself a pt of black america??

i really feel bad, sometimes, for extremely light skinned or mixed raced blacks bc its like nothing they do is "black enough" for the rest of the world.  i have a cousin who is readily mistaken for white, and she feels the need to enter this sort of black english when she is around other black people (lest she be mistaken for a bourgie b!tch who "thinks shes white").  i've had friends who acted similarly: who insisted on dressing a certain way or speaking certain ways in lieu of a permanent sign that says "I'M BLACK TOO".

why does our society make mixed-race people feel the need to pick and choose this way?

Only because we are on a law school discussion site and the LSAT made me into a logical rasoning Nazi will I point out the glaring flaws in your argument.

You make the classic non sequiter (an inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.) argument by supporting the conclusion:
Mariah is clearly black

with this evidence
1. she has black folk dancing in the fields in her videos
2. she has an obligatory chubby black kid in 90% of her videos
3. the frequent appearance of black chior/church members in her videos
4. she sports long braided extensions and a do-rag
5. "and have u seen her entourage?"

None of those facts are either necessary or sufficient to establish blackness.  Blackness comes from somewhere else than the cast of a few videos, a do-rag ( I dont know why but that word cracks me up), and a black entourage.  Doesnt Eminem have lots of black characters surounding him and in his videos?

From your evidence, one could come to a completely different conclusion: Mariah is trying to front like she is black by overplaying her alleged blackness.

If she grew up in a black neigborhood or somehow was active in the black community your argument would be much stronger.

[jerrica benton]

i will assume that you were so eager to display to the world your knowledge of logical fallacies that you missed the main idea of the post. 

the main idea of the post is that mixed raced/extremely light skinned black people (even those that are not mariah) are often made to feel the need to compensate for their skin tones by acting in ways that are an exaggerated extrapolation of "typical" black behavior.  i suggested that these feelings are caused by the black community's treatment of its mixed-raced brethren.

mariah was cited *purely* as in infamous example of said treatment.

nowhere is it stated that these actions infallibly signify blackness.  my post does, however, infer that a person engaging in said behavior [in seriousness] is likely acting out of a connection to the black community.

on a diff note, based on your conclusion and your interpretation of the post, it's pretty obvious that you have the vindictive mentality that makes other people feel the need to act in the ways described in my original post.

[XYZZY]

I agree.  mariah is ugly enough as it is, and perpetually on the verge of the next mental breakdown.  leave the poor girl alone

[Lawprofessor]

i will assume that you were so eager to display to the world your knowledge of logical fallacies that you missed the main idea of the post. 

the main idea of the post is that mixed raced/extremely light skinned black people (even those that are not mariah) are often made to feel the need to compensate for their skin tones by acting in ways that are an exaggerated extrapolation of "typical" black behavior.  i suggested that these feelings are caused by the black community's treatment of its mixed-raced brethren.

mariah was cited *purely* as in infamous example of said treatment.

nowhere is it stated that these actions infallibly signify blackness.  my post does, however, infer that a person engaging in said behavior [in seriousness] is likely acting out of a connection to the black community.

on a diff note, based on your conclusion and your interpretation of the post, it's pretty obvious that you have the vindictive mentality that makes other people feel the need to act in the ways described in my original post.

How do you get that based on his post that he has a vendictive mentality that makes other people feel the need to act in the ways described in your original post? You get that from the fact that he pointed out some flaws in your original post?  I thought the same thing, while I am not saying I disagree with your premise about mixed race people (I am not saying I agree either), I just didnt say post in response to it until now.  You probably should have just made your point without the example of Mariah Carey.  It was a truely flawed example. While you say that your original post was not entirely about Mariah, you sure put a lot of time into using her as an example.  It might have been a little confusing to those who are reading it what exactly your point was.  Even to those that are clear as to what your point was, your example was a poor example of the point you were trying to make.

[TrojanChispas]

i will assume that you were so eager to display to the world your knowledge of logical fallacies that you missed the main idea of the post. 

the main idea of the post is that mixed raced/extremely light skinned black people (even those that are not mariah) are often made to feel the need to compensate for their skin tones by acting in ways that are an exaggerated extrapolation of "typical" black behavior.  i suggested that these feelings are caused by the black community's treatment of its mixed-raced brethren.

mariah was cited *purely* as in infamous example of said treatment.

nowhere is it stated that these actions infallibly signify blackness.  my post does, however, infer that a person engaging in said behavior [in seriousness] is likely acting out of a connection to the black community.

on a diff note, based on your conclusion and your interpretation of the post, it's pretty obvious that you have the vindictive mentality that makes other people feel the need to act in the ways described in my original post.

naw, you got me all wrong.  I was analyzing your "argument" for why Mariah should be considered black.  Don't take offense, there was nothing personal about it.  It was just that to one objective observer there seemed to be to to arguments that you were making, one of which was poorly supported.  The part in bold is with what I would take issue because someone could to all those things and just be fronting.  Either way it is a red herring argument with the evidence you gave.  I appologize if I offended you, shake on it?

[smujd2007]

I agree with the first post on this thread. Mariah should be left alone. I don't see what the big deal is.  So many people in America needlessly focus on criticizing and critiquing others and fail to solve their own problems. 

I am a big Mariah Carey fan as well, but this does not bias me in that way. My skin is not that light, in fact, it is a medium tone, and I have often been treated as an outcast by the black community because I talk white, have "light skin" and associate with "white people." I have other friends with "fair skin" who are treated the same way. It is a sad part of American culture, specifically African American culture. 

Great post whatyoudreamof.