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Author Topic: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"  (Read 889 times)

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2014, 06:11:34 PM »
We definitely need to do away with the US News & World Report rankings. Even if new ones pop up, so be it. But the current rankings have way too much influence over our profession. It's ridiculous actually.
Something like Above The Law rankings may suffice. I think these rankings really need to be entirely based on employment outcomes and debt to income ratio over ten years. At the end of the day, you're going to law school to get a job and for the most part, you really chart the course of your career after your first lawyer job.

I second that. 

You're absolutely right, law school is professional school, meaning you go specifically to get a job and become a part of the profession.  If you're going to rate law schools, rate them on that.  For me, when I was doing my research to apply to law schools, the employment rates, average starting salaries and tuition were the top 3 criteria that I paid the most attention to because at the end of the day, that's what I was going to be dealing with after graduation.  Can this school get me a job practicing law in the area/field I want to be in?  If not, I really don't give a damn what its ranking is.
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Charles H. Houston

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Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2014, 06:46:19 PM »
I think the "they mean nothing to me argument" will only mean that some people will think the same and ignore them, but they remain.

I can't believe anyone will ever get them removed though. What possible grounds could there be for a lawsuit that would stick?

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2014, 09:43:10 PM »
Perhaps the states can file a suit on public policy grounds and have the ABA enter expert testimony on the harmful effects of the rankings.

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Charles H. Houston

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Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2014, 10:59:43 PM »
A lawsuit seems like a longshot at best. I'd be against it on free speech grounds, regardless of how I feel about the rankings.

The answer to bad information is good information. A new rankings scheme which accounts for things like long term employment prospects and local reputation would be better.

One of the main problems I see with USNWR is that it holds all schools to a national standard by having lawyers and judges from around the country evaluate them.

Example:
I know a lawyer in Montana who graduated from the University of Montana. UM has a great in-state reputation, and the state's bench and bar are well stocked with UM grads. It also has a good rep in surrounding states like Idaho and Wyoming. No one in Montana considers UM a second rate school. In fact, Montanans are really proud of their public university. It's also one of the cheapest law schools in the country.

So, USNWR asks a bunch a of lawyers and judges who know nothing about UM to rate UM. Then they look at it's fairly modest admissions selectivity.

The result?

UM ranks #121. 

But in Montana it's #1, and would be the best choice for a kid who wants to live in that area. Those types of things are simply not accounted for in the current scheme.

Citylaw

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Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2014, 11:31:26 PM »
There is no lawsuit available it is a magazine offering an opinion, which hundreds of other publications do.

IMDB for example says Shawshank Redemption is the #1 movie http://www.imdb.com/chart/top and goes on to list 250 movies.

Rotten tomatoes does not even list Shawshank Redemption in the top #100 movies http://www.rottentomatoes.com/top/bestofrt/

There are lists and rankings for everything and there is nothing wrong with U.S. News ranking schools they way they do. I think the rankings should not be taken seriously, but it is unfortunate students make life altering decisions based on a magazine's opinion.

Personally I think Shawshank Redemption is great movie, but it is not even in my personal top 25.

Our culture unfortunately just blindly follows lists without asking questions, but people need to learn to think critically and law students that don't make horrible life altering decisions based on magazine, but U.S. News is not doing anything wrong they are releasing their opinion of schools.

As all the posters have stated Harvard, Yale, etc are good schools and nobody needed to see the U.S. News rankings to learn that. If they want to think Montana is the #121 best school they are entitled to their opinion as stated in the above post Montana is a great school probably the best option for someone that wants to live in Montana realistically.

People just need to use common sense when choosing a law school, but I don't think U.S. News is doing anything wrong or illegal by ranking schools. They are just a for-profit magazine offering an opinion like so many other publications out there do.

Top 10 bands;
Linkin Park according to this ranking is better than Guns & Roses; Nirvana; the Rolling Stones; and AC/DC http://www.thetoptens.com/rock-bands/

I think that is way off base, but this website is entitled to their opinion if I have the option to see any of the four bands to the right in concert I am going I don't know if you could pay me to go.




Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2014, 08:57:29 PM »
In order to be accurate, the rankings would have to be according to region, or by state.
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Charles H. Houston

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Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2014, 11:31:03 PM »
In order to be accurate, the rankings would have to be according to region, or by state.

I Could see that being a factor, but nationwide is still accurate. A grad from school1 likely will try to work in State2-50

Maintain FL 350

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Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2014, 12:02:33 PM »
I Could see that being a factor, but nationwide is still accurate. A grad from school1 likely will try to work in State2-50

True, and a graduate of Harvard for example, can work in all 50 states because well, it's Harvard. The degree is instantly recognizable as badass no matter where you go. In that case national reputation matters.

Where law students fail is in their misunderstanding of what the national reputation means.

Using the Montana example again, let's say you have a student who is from Montana, qualifies for cheap in-state tuition, and plans to return after law school. That student might be tempted to attend #79 University of San Diego, or #72 New Mexico because they're both ranked higher than #121 Montana.

The student is convinced that they're getting a "better" education at the higher ranked school, and doesn't understand that they have about the same national reputation.   

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2014, 03:26:34 PM »
In order to be accurate, the rankings would have to be according to region, or by state.

I Could see that being a factor, but nationwide is still accurate. A grad from school1 likely will try to work in State2-50

Nationwide rankings are only accurate for the first 14 or so schools.  Outside of that, the national rankings are arbitrary and, in most cases, misleading because they don't match up with real life regional employment options.
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Charles H. Houston

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Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2014, 04:04:36 PM »
I can't see enough money in regional rankings for a national publication to justify their doing it