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Author Topic: Law School Attrition  (Read 878 times)

Maintain FL 350

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Law School Attrition
« on: May 13, 2014, 02:35:15 PM »
I posted a link to this article in another forum, but am reposting here.

Apparently, despite all the handwringing law school attrition it is at an historic low. It was very high in the 60's, dropped to 20% by 1975, and has not gone above 10% since 1994.

Grade inflation? Better academic support? A more qualified applicant pool? I don't know.

I remember my Con Law prof (an Ivy League grad) saying that 1/3 attrition was expected when he was in law school. Maybe our increasing sense of entitlement has convinced us that we deserve a J.D., and we balk at the idea of being told "no".

http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2013/02/what-has-happened-to-law-school-attrition.html

I.M.D.Law

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Re: Law School Attrition
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 02:45:43 PM »
The sense of entitlement that all patients think they deserve to live probably sickens him as well

Citylaw

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Re: Law School Attrition
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 03:41:21 PM »
I think it has much more to do with economics than hand holding. If schools routinely failed out 33% of their class they would lose large amounts of tuition money. Again, proving the point no school wants to kick students out removing one student can result in a loss of 60k to 80k over two years.



Maintain FL 350

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Re: Law School Attrition
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2014, 03:56:05 PM »
The sense of entitlement that all patients think they deserve to live probably sickens him as well

Yes, because a patient fighting for his life is entirely comparable to a lazy 1L who sits on his ass all semester and fails contracts.

I.M.D.Law

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Re: Law School Attrition
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2014, 05:38:33 PM »
The sense of entitlement that all patients think they deserve to live probably sickens him as well

Yes, because a patient fighting for his life is entirely comparable to a lazy 1L who sits on his ass all semester and fails contracts.

He chose to smoke, drink, not look while walking into traffic, etc
was "lazy and sits on his ass" until heart disease and other ailments kick in........
so yeah actually

Head on nail

I.M.D.Law

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Re: Law School Attrition
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2014, 05:40:07 PM »
I think it has much more to do with economics than hand holding. If schools routinely failed out 33% of their class they would lose large amounts of tuition money. Again, proving the point no school wants to kick students out removing one student can result in a loss of 60k to 80k over two years.

I don't think anyone was ever trying to argue that they "want" to fail them out
just that (for whatever reason) they DO

Maintain FL 350

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Re: Law School Attrition
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2014, 06:25:52 PM »
I think it has much more to do with economics than hand holding. If schools routinely failed out 33% of their class they would lose large amounts of tuition money. Again, proving the point no school wants to kick students out removing one student can result in a loss of 60k to 80k over two years.

I don't think anyone was ever trying to argue that they "want" to fail them out
just that (for whatever reason) they DO

Well, I would argue that they don't fail them out "for whatever reason", they fail them out because they aren't meeting the minimum acceptable standards. If someone can't pass the first year courses, they're unlikely to pass the bar.

Law school attrition should probably be higher than it currently is. There were multiple people at my school who scraped by with barely acceptable grades, graduated, and never passed the bar. I'm not sure the school did them any favors by allowing them to repeat failed courses and continue.   

I.M.D.Law

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Re: Law School Attrition
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 08:53:00 PM »
That is to assume there is some universal standard in grading, and there simply is not.
What would fail you out of a lower ranked school is a 3.0 at Ivy

What school did you go to? Is it one that lets people in that shouldn't be let into begin with? THAT is a huge factor too. Schools seem to think that they can make money by bringing in everyone and anyone (since you mentioned the economics of it earlier) and then somehow raise their bar pass rates by flunking out the lower third. The reality is that the bar pass rates still remain low but you also end up with thousands of victims who never even graduated since they never should have been let in.

Citylaw

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Re: Law School Attrition
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2014, 08:58:18 PM »
Again, I believe it is due to economics schools used to have higher standards, but kicking out the floaters results in substantial economic loss.

At almost every law school in America there are probably a few people that should not be there. Dismissing students that do not appear capable of passing the bar are better served to be dismissed after 1L in my opinon as taking 2 more years of their lives and 60-80k of their money is wrong.

Or at risk students should have to be informed of what to expect prior to starting 2L. I believe attrition was higher, because schools were not as tuition hungry, but with the influx of schools there is more of a focus on revenue than education, which is harming legal education and the legal profession.

Bottom line I think law school attrition should go up as it would be fairer to at risk students and improve the legal profession.

I.M.D.Law

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Re: Law School Attrition
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 09:31:31 PM »
Again, I believe it is due to economics schools used to have higher standards, but kicking out the floaters results in substantial economic loss.

At almost every law school in America there are probably a few people that should not be there. Dismissing students that do not appear capable of passing the bar are better served to be dismissed after 1L in my opinon as taking 2 more years of their lives and 60-80k of their money is wrong.

Or at risk students should have to be informed of what to expect prior to starting 2L. I believe attrition was higher, because schools were not as tuition hungry, but with the influx of schools there is more of a focus on revenue than education, which is harming legal education and the legal profession.

Bottom line I think law school attrition should go up as it would be fairer to at risk students and improve the legal profession.
I disagree.
Just make the LSAT harder and make an ABA standard requiring minimum admission standards