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Author Topic: July 2013 Bar Exam Results  (Read 1074 times)

jonlevy

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2014, 07:55:14 PM »
Among big bars, DC and California have the hardest bars, Illinois one of the easiest.  If someone passes the FYLSE exam they should get a ticket to the bar. Low pass rates by DL applicants may have to do with:

1.  Poor performance on the essay questions.
2.  lack of preparation time due to employment and other responsibilites.

If DL students were allowed to take some of the easier bars like South Dakota with a consistent 90% pass rate - we would see those pass rates at least double or tiple.

Maintain FL 350

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2014, 01:41:36 AM »
Low pass rates by DL applicants may have to do with:

1.  Poor performance on the essay questions.
2.  lack of preparation time due to employment and other responsibilites.

As far as the essay questions, why is that? Do most DL programs use the basic IRAC format, or are many DL students simply coming in to the program with less college level writing?

As far as employment, many ABA part time programs have employed/married, etc students, but still have decent pass rates. Do you think this is due to the more stringent admission criteria?

If DL students were allowed to take some of the easier bars like South Dakota with a consistent 90% pass rate - we would see those pass rates at least double or tiple.

I completely agree. If we required ALL law students to take the FYLSE, and allowed DL to take more than California's crazy bar, we'd see fewer ABA lawyers and more DL lawyers as a result.

CA Law Dean

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2014, 07:26:50 PM »
If I can jump back in here after being away from the discussion since last summer . . . IF the answer to why the California bar exam pass rate is so low was simple to figure out . . . trust me, our pass rate at Monterey College of Law would be 100%. First, remember that there are 21 ABA law schools, 17 California accredited law schools, and another 20 unaccredited and distance education law schools that feed applicants into the California bar exam. Compare that, for example, to 11 New York law schools, the next most populous state for law schools and other states that range to 1 school for Nevada and 0 for Alaska. This means that the applicant pool is dramatically different than for any other state . . . socio-economic, age, income, primary language, etc. Second, you need to realize that California deliberately scales the multi-state (MBE) scores so that a range of the raw scores that are passing in all 48 other states fail to make the cut in California. This "artificially" lowers the California overall pass rate and disproportionately affects non-traditional students, many of whom fall in the margin of difference. The three-day bar exam means that 2/3rds of the exam is timed essay and 1/3 multiple choice vs. 50-50 in most states. The exams are graded by lawyers who are 100% from traditional ABA schools and who were trained to answer law school exams in a homogenized environment that has changed little over the past 100 years. All in all, what it means is that the cumulative pass rates (not first-time and NOT Repeater - a nonsense number for this conversation) in California are far better comparisons for the state-by-state comparisons. Although the small cohorts of Monterey College of Law (one of the CALS) graduates could range from 0-80% first-time pass rates, the five-year cumulative pass rate of 66-68% is competitive in the context of the California scores.

Likewise, Concord Law School, the largest distance learning law school has about a 60% cumulative pass rate once you factor out their out-of-state and international students who have no interest in practicing in CA and rarely invest in the type of bar prep resources necessary to have a chance to pass in CA.

If you want to make your head hurt, here are the most recent 2012 statistics comparing national bar pass rates.

http://www.ncbex.org/assets/media_files/Bar-Examiner/articles/2013/8201132012statistics.pdf
Monterey College of Law
www.montereylaw.edu

jonlevy

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2014, 09:08:44 AM »
Law Dean - thanks for the stats.  Note that DC has it right - more admissions by motion than anyone else by far.  Most states including California are violating the Commerce Clause by engaging in restraint of interstate trade by erecting barriers to practice and free movement.  Surely, one can expect a competent attorney with 5-10 years continuous experience to be able to seamlessly move between jurisdictions.  The differences in law between DC and California for example are minimal - at least DC thinks so and permits all California attorneys including non ABA to motion in after 5 years practice.  Even going to another commmon law country is not difficult for a seasoned lawyer who can read the rules and statutes.

Apparently the "public" needs protection from lawyers who  cannot read or comprehend statutes but then again what bar did they pass I wonder? 

Then there is the crazy quilt of federal district court jurisidictions - I can be a member of federal court bar for example in North Dakota but not Nevada - why?  Bar protectionism and restraint of trade.