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Author Topic: July 2013 Bar Exam Results  (Read 2331 times)

jonlevy

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July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« on: January 28, 2014, 08:33:18 AM »


http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/gbx/JULY2013STATS.012214_R.pdf
Overall Passrates

 
CA Unaccredited 
12.6
Law Office/Judges’ Chambers
14.3
Foreign Educated/JD Equivalent + One Year US Education
12.4
Foreign Attorneys Taking the General Bar Exam3
16.1


jonlevy

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2014, 08:40:04 AM »
So there you go - about a less than one in 5 chance  no matter which alternative route route you take -

Versus 22% for NON ABA California Accredited

My alma mater Taft however had overall  a nore than 20% pass rate

jonlevy

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2014, 08:51:49 AM »
Cooley lawschool however managed only 15% overall.

livinglegend

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2014, 10:37:16 AM »
Granted Cooleys Michigan pass rate is on par with other Michigan ABA schools. Most schools pass rates drop substantially when their students take bars in other states. A lot of it is probably the stress of students simply adjusting to a new environment.

I will also add that I honestly believe whether someone passes the bar or not has more to do with the individual than the school they attend. Whether you went to Harvard or Cooley if you don't put the long hours of studying and practice exams in it is unlikely to go well and whether puts those hours in or chooses to Party, procrastinated or whatever else is up to them.

Maintain FL 350

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 03:53:27 PM »
Very interesting results.

I agree with livinglegend that personal motivation is a huge factor. But when I see the incredibly low pass rates of many of the unaccredited and CBE schools it makes me think that they are simply admitting too many people who should not be in law school. A significant number of unaccredited schools had zero first time passers, and that's after the FYLSE has weeded out quite a few. I don't know if the problem is with students, the program, or both but having consistently low pass rates indicates a problem.

I also think it's interesting that many lower ranked CA schools have significantly better pass rates than much higher ranked out of state schools. For example, La Verne beat schools like Boston College, Minnesota, and Notre Dame. Golden Gate beat American, ASU, and many others. Southwestern beat Vanderbilt!

I don't accept that this is necessarily due to the advantage of being able to study CA law. When I was in law school in CA I think I took one CA specific class (community property). All of the other CA law I learned in BARBRI along with the out of staters. Considering how difficult the CA bar exam is, I think it's pretty impressive that a school can take students with lower GPA/LSAT numbers and still beat top ranked schools on the bar exam. Maybe the well known difficulty of the CA bar makes the CA schools strive harder? I dunno, but it's interesting.   

jonlevy

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 06:59:45 PM »
Concord's rates were fairly dismal given the Washington Post Corp. is the parent company.  Anyone contemplating DL should realize the odds are at least 5 -1 against and in the case of some schools off the charts.   However, I submit the problem is not necessarily schools but the students just not of the requisitie calibre. Low pass rates for foreign educated applicants also indicates that an offshore law school is  bad option.

Maintain FL 350

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 10:14:28 PM »
I think you're probably right Jonlevy, but doesn't that mean that the DL schools should be implementing somewhat more stringent admission standards?

Citylaw

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 11:49:07 PM »
Maintain:

I don't think poor result have anything to do with the applicable law on the individual bar exam, but it has a lot to do with the stress of adjusting to a new environment. When I was taking the California Bar I was freaking out, but I went to law school in San Francisco and had my friends, girlfriend, apartment, etc in San Francisco and it was somewhat comforting to have a support structure during that time.

Had I moved across the Country to New York and not known a soul, rushed into some random apartment, and knew nothing the stress of all those changes would have been very difficult to deal with and the results may have come out very differently. This is something I don't think many law students take into consideration when studying for a bar or choosing a law school.

JonLevy:

As to distance learning schools I don't know if they need more stringent requirements. I strongly believe people should have a right to choose whether or not to attend law school. If they have a mental disability or something they should not be taken advantage of, but if someone is capable of obtaining a bachelor's degree they are smart enough to figure out their odds at a CBA school.





Maintain FL 350

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2014, 12:28:26 PM »
Maintain:

I don't think poor result have anything to do with the applicable law on the individual bar exam, but it has a lot to do with the stress of adjusting to a new environment. When I was taking the California Bar I was freaking out, but I went to law school in San Francisco and had my friends, girlfriend, apartment, etc in San Francisco and it was somewhat comforting to have a support structure during that time.

Had I moved across the Country to New York and not known a soul, rushed into some random apartment, and knew nothing the stress of all those changes would have been very difficult to deal with and the results may have come out very differently. This is something I don't think many law students take into consideration when studying for a bar or choosing a law school.

Yes, I agree that it's definitely a factor but to what degree? The pass rates for many out of state schools in CA is really low, like 25-50% even for first tier schools. A lot of those students are actually from CA and are returning home after law school, so they do have a support network. But as you say, others don't.

I just wonder if CA law schools prepare students for the difficulty level they will face on the CA bar exam, whereas other states prepare students for their own level of difficulty? It would interesting to see the rates at which CA students pass/fail other states' bar exams. I've never taken another state's bar, but I know people who have. With a few exceptions (NY and TX), most of the people I've to felt that CA's bar was more difficult, and in some cases significantly so.

Citylaw

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Re: July 2013 Bar Exam Results
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2014, 08:17:06 PM »
I think there is no question California is the hardest bar. Almost every other has only two days of testing while California requires three, which means there is a whole lot more material that is tested on.

Additionally, the mental strain of three days of intense testing is a lot worse than two. I think a lot of smart people just burn out on day three, which doesn't happen in New York or Texas.

Out-of-State schools understandably do not go out of their way to teach students California subjects or that it is more difficult than other states since they focus on the state they are located in.

I truly think if you want to be a lawyer in California you should attend an ABA school in California, but I am just a guy on the internet.