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Author Topic: Practice of "Law" w/out a License  (Read 1856 times)

jonlevy

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Re: Practice of "Law" w/out a License
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2014, 08:56:23 PM »
There are some nationwide Social Security Advocacy firms that apparently do well enough to advertise a lot.  They are regulated by SSA.  California requires Immigration Consultants to post bond. Public Notaries such as they exists in some states also provide independent paralegal services.  Given that lawyers have a lot more latitude to cheat clients and state bars are often indifferent regulators - as long as there is a need someone will provide the service.  My point is that most DL law students will fail to pass the California bar but they can still work in the legal system and provide services while turning a profit equal or better than a solo practitioner if they are good enough.

I.M.D.Law

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Re: Practice of "Law" w/out a License
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2014, 11:27:05 PM »
There are some nationwide Social Security Advocacy firms that apparently do well enough to advertise a lot.  They are regulated by SSA.  California requires Immigration Consultants to post bond. Public Notaries such as they exists in some states also provide independent paralegal services.  Given that lawyers have a lot more latitude to cheat clients and state bars are often indifferent regulators - as long as there is a need someone will provide the service.  My point is that most DL law students will fail to pass the California bar but they can still work in the legal system and provide services while turning a profit equal or better than a solo practitioner if they are good enough.

It's a nice theory, but in that same theory you can do it with a GED or less too.

I can't imagine those firms would hire online grads unless they already had a lot of experience and had passed the bar. If you have an uncle or something to get you the experience then after a few years I bet the firms would take you. Otherwise you have a better chance making a profit on a paper route. Even licensed ABA grads get turned down for those jobs if they lack the experience or weren't the top 10% of their class.

jonlevy

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Re: Practice of "Law" w/out a License
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2014, 09:49:27 PM »
Yes that would be true if one did not take initiative but NOSSCR offers training for SSA advocates.  A high school grad likely would not be able to handle the paperwork or rules involved.  SSA is actually one of the most complex areas of the law which is why few attorneys go there.

jonlevy

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Re: Practice of "Law" w/out a License
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2014, 09:52:21 PM »

[/quote]
 Even licensed ABA grads get turned down for those jobs if they lack the experience or weren't the top 10% of their class.
[/quote]

Why on earth would a DL graduate expect to be handed a job?  They shouldn't go that route if you expect a job at the end - you can expect to be gainfully self employed if you are willing to put in the effort though.

I.M.D.Law

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Re: Practice of "Law" w/out a License
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2014, 10:31:03 PM »

Even licensed ABA grads get turned down for those jobs if they lack the experience or weren't the top 10% of their class.
[/quote]

Why on earth would a DL graduate expect to be handed a job?  They shouldn't go that route if you expect a job at the end - you can expect to be gainfully self employed if you are willing to put in the effort though.
[/quote]
you missed my point
and if you can't expect to get a job, you shouldn't go to school for it
gainfully self employed isn't really a thing, its more of a myth that an unlicensed person with an unaccredited degree will be able to do anything worth doing on their own. I don't doubt some will, but we're talking single digit percentiles.

I am not saying that anyone should expect anything to be "handed to them" just that they have far less odds than the groups that I was comparing them to, who  themselves are not in the best situations as far as that goes.

If someone really wants to go that route I guess an EJD would be "ok" to do, but it really seems foolish.

If you don't plan to get licensed at least go to a real school and get a Masters Degree in law from them. At least people will see a name they know/trust/respect and it will be regionally accredited. Heck get a masters degree in Paralegal if you want to work under lawyers without being one too I guess.

I.M.D.Law

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Re: Practice of "Law" w/out a License
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2014, 10:33:50 PM »
Yes that would be true if one did not take initiative but NOSSCR offers training for SSA advocates.  A high school grad likely would not be able to handle the paperwork or rules involved.  SSA is actually one of the most complex areas of the law which is why few attorneys go there.

I had to look up NOSSCR. They appear to be a voluntary group and not required to be a member of do SSA work. But if one did want to be a member it doesn't look like even an 8th grade education is required to participate.

I'll post a direct link to it in case anyone is interested. It might help someone. I honestly do wish people the best with all things advocate related, I would just hate to see people get a doctorate degree that doesn't provide anywhere near the value to them as it takes them to achieve it.
http://nosscr.org/

jonlevy

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Re: Practice of "Law" w/out a License
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2014, 05:30:12 AM »
True there is no education requirement to be an  SSA advocate but it sure helps.  Besides being a lucrative field, it is one in which people are actually getting helped.  Same with Workers Comp and Veterans Disability.  A lot of attorneys still think these are "bottom feeder" fields - very, very wrong. These are among the most complex areas of the law, not the least.

I.M.D.Law

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Re: Practice of "Law" w/out a License
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2014, 01:16:04 PM »
True there is no education requirement to be an  SSA advocate but it sure helps.  Besides being a lucrative field, it is one in which people are actually getting helped.  Same with Workers Comp and Veterans Disability.  A lot of attorneys still think these are "bottom feeder" fields - very, very wrong. These are among the most complex areas of the law, not the least.

so.......if they are the MOST complex, then wouldn't it make sense NOT to walk into them unlicensed (even if "legal") and without working under someone else first? And who will let you work under them if unlicensed? (no one)

so there is the quagmire of that. I think people see it's "legal" and just want to believe a thing for false hope, so they believe it.

Maintain FL 350

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Re: Practice of "Law" w/out a License
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2014, 04:30:36 PM »
If you're going into business for yourself as a solo practitioner doing SSA or VA advocacy, it doesn't matter if you're licensed. It's not going to prevent you from hiring yourself, and nothing you learn for the bar exam is going to prepare you anyway.
 
Is it a good idea to go into solo practice straight out of law school, and without a mentor? Depends on the individual. Some people are smart enough to figure it out, especially if they have previous experience in the field. Others aren't, and need some hand holding at first.

I could see it being a problem if clients want a licensed attorney as opposed to a mere advocate, but frankly, I doubt if most actually care. What they want is someone who can win, regardless of licensure.
   

I.M.D.Law

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Re: Practice of "Law" w/out a License
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2014, 05:12:27 PM »
If you're going into business for yourself as a solo practitioner doing SSA or VA advocacy, it doesn't matter if you're licensed. It's not going to prevent you from hiring yourself, and nothing you learn for the bar exam is going to prepare you anyway.
 
Is it a good idea to go into solo practice straight out of law school, and without a mentor? Depends on the individual. Some people are smart enough to figure it out, especially if they have previous experience in the field. Others aren't, and need some hand holding at first.

I could see it being a problem if clients want a licensed attorney as opposed to a mere advocate, but frankly, I doubt if most actually care. What they want is someone who can win, regardless of licensure.
   

This strikes me as professional suicide with HUGE liabilities