Law School Discussion


Has anyone had any experience with St. Francis or SoCAL?

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Voting closed: October 05, 2013, 03:04:07 AM

St. Francis Law

St. Francis Law
« on: September 25, 2013, 03:04:07 AM »
I just wanted to know any opinions and/or experiences with either Southern California or St. Francis Law Schools?

Re: St. Francis Law
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2013, 01:02:21 PM »
There hasn't been a post on this board in over a month.  I'm glad to see it is still working.

By the way, your poll doesn't have any descriptions for the radio buttons.  There are two buttons each with a question mark.  Are you asking yes or no?  Are you asking one school or the other?

Re: St. Francis Law
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2013, 07:29:14 AM »
This board gets remarkably little use, I think that people are hesitant to  post because they fear being attacked.  In the past, this hasn't really been a very friendly place to post comments which could be regarded as pro-distance education.  The radio buttons are a bit confusing......

Re: St. Francis Law
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2013, 11:04:55 AM »
I have looked at all of the on-line schools.  St. Francis is much cheaper than California School of Law, but I don't believe SF has a very good baby bar passing rate (in comparison to other online schools.)  If you were going to go to California School of Law and pay that price tag, you may want to consider Concord.  For me, it seems the best choice is Northwestern California School of Law.  The price tag is great and their statistics on the pass rate for the baby bar are not that bad.   

Again, I am not an expert.  Just my opinion.

Re: St. Francis Law
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2013, 06:01:39 PM »
Putting your money on an online LS with no track record of success is a huge gamble.  A lot of these schools come and go and graduate few if any attorneys.  Go with a school that has actually graduated lawyers.  if you don't get a law license all your money is wasted on an unaccredited degree or worse a first year.

Re: St. Francis Law
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2013, 12:12:20 PM »
I have heard of St. Francis not Southern California. I am sure either school will teach you the law, but online education particularly for something as nuanced as law school is difficult. When I was in law school I learned a great deal from being in class and participating in class discussion etc. You also realize everybody else is as confused as you.

The truth is any school that can get you a ticket to the bar exam can make you a lawyer. I assume both of these schools have some sort of accreditation and can get you the bar ticket, but there will be doors closed to you from either school. However, that doesn't mean you can't succeed as an attorney you just need to know what you want.

If you want to work in a Big Firm or obtain a Federal Clerkship etc don't attend these schools. If you want to start your own firm either school can get you a law license.

Good luck!

Re: St. Francis Law
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2013, 05:05:11 PM »
Both schools are not accredited and they will not get you a ticket to the bar, only the First Year Exam which has only a 20% overall pass rate.  This is why how much the school costs is a non criteria.  The only criteria for online California law schools are First Year exam pass rate and Bar pass rate. Of course one can theoretically become a lawyer by going to these schools however reality is the statistics. 

I have seen lots of theories on how one can become a lawyer here and there and not go to a traditional law schools but the proof is the bar pass rate, nothing more or less.

There are only about  3 or 4 distance law schools in California that have a track record of any sort of success and even then your odds are more like 5 to 1 against passing the bar.

I'm not against it by any means, just in favor of transparency.

Re: St. Francis Law
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2013, 05:49:54 PM »
Thanks for all the replies. PLEASE IGNORE POLL.  This site did not come with directions, lol.  I am not from CA and never heard of any of these schools.  Instead of Southern California, I  meant CAL Southern. It is registered both as correspondence and as a stand-alone school with the CA Bar.  They seem to have a reasonable pass rate and is DETC (that and $.50, call someone who cares)

St. Francis is off the list.  They will not answer telephone. However, they seem to have a nice presentation, price, and bar pass rate.

Northwestern seems to be most reputable in the region with a list of alumni, who are actually ATTORNEYS, and NOT FRY COOKS. (or in jail).  I spoke with a couple today.  There are several states (DC included) which have allowed their graduates admission to the bar.

Taft seems to be fully accredited with everyone EXCEPT ABA and cannot answer even dumb questions.  But they do get TITLE IV funds - and people wander what is wrong with the system. . . .

Oak Brook has an impressive pass rate.  The curriculum seems good too. Only problem is that they are religious.  2 men have always had their hands in my pocket:  UNCLE SAM, and the PREACHER MAN!

Concord is  the only school which has both accreditation with CA Bar and is regionally certified with US Dept of Ed.  Its policies mirror the ABA standards.  There are some states which will allow their graduates admission without a 5 year wait (Georgia) so long as a dean of an ABA certified law school will certify that he/she thinks the distance education was adherent to the ABA model (except of course for the physical plant requirements).

These are the fruits of the limited research I have done for myself. I hope anyone who has questions can use this.  I went to an ABA law school and hated it-thus, I have not finished a JD.  I primarily want to practice tax law and work mostly in  the Federal System.  I live in Georgia but may move. I have health issues and neither want the full time obligation of a traditional school nor the expense.

I have met most of the requirements of the DC Bar.  There are 26 hours of ABA approved law school in any of the 9 tested subject areas (If JD is awarded online) in addition to a J.D. awarded by any college or university (here, I am assuming "college or university" means it must be recognized. So Mid-A somebody in NC might not cut the mustard).  I would then take the DC Bar. Then I have to face whether or not the state in which the federal court "sits" will recognize the license, or if I have to jump through more hoops.

Georgia is a different animal.  There is a waiver process and no one will disclose the outcomes.  Only when bar admission is denied and there is appeal made to the Supreme Court is there a record.  There have not been many appeals lately. 
The case I can find outside of Westlaw is the BATTERSON case.  Her case could possibly have been won, had she found  a dean of a law school sign her evaluation of the law school (Northwestern CAL) for Georgia.  Most other denials are based on faulty evidence, failure-to-disclose issues,  or overall character and fitness objections, not the quality of the online education itself. I do not know if that is good news, or rather a convenient excuse to deny entry for the non ABA student.

I  have come to the conclusion that it is far more taxing to avoid the ABA oligopoly than to just give in and follow the path of least resistance - go ABA (for those of us who can)!

Re: St. Francis Law
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2013, 07:43:34 AM »
I believe that distance learning is the new reality in most fields, but law is very slow to climb on board.  This is not entirely the fault of the ABA as the supreme courts of the various states generally make the rules for bar admission.  I really do think that there will one day be a distance learning program approved by the ABA, most likely initially offered from a traditional brick and mortar school.  However, unless people continue to push for it - though legitimate channels - it's going to be very slow in arriving. 

Re: St. Francis Law
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2013, 03:25:00 PM »
I am a strong beleiver in brick and mortar law schools. Online undergrad or other less rigorous programs can be done online, but law school is difficult and requires extensive studying. You cannot cram at the last minute and I know my school did a study of those who used BarBri online and those who attended class and the result was those who attended the courses did substantially better than those who studied online.

There are individuals who can and have succeeded from online schools, but for the vast majority of people it will not work out. Just my two cents as an anonymous internet poster.