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Is anyone attending Widener TAP Program in May 2013?

Do anyone have any information on Widener Tap Program?
 1 (50%)
What do you think about Widener Law School?
 1 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 2

Author Topic: Widener TAP 2013  (Read 2085 times)

An_Eager_Legal_Mind

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Widener TAP 2013
« on: April 01, 2013, 08:39:44 PM »
I got accepted to Widener Law school TAP program in Harrisburg and plan on attending.  I would like to know is there anyone else who is planning on attending this year? Also if anyone has gone through this program at Widener, any information regarding your experience would be helpful. Thank you.

FutureLawyer555

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Re: Widener TAP 2013
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 09:22:17 PM »
@An_Eager_Legal_Mind would you mind sharing your LSAT score range? I am planning to apply to Widener as well and would like to know which scores they accept? thanks!

Citylaw

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Re: Widener TAP 2013
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2014, 10:40:25 PM »
I do not know anything specifically about Widener, but I think the program makes sense for those that really want to attend law school.

It is my understanding that TAP compromises of students without sufficient numbers to be accepted into most law schools. However, the numbers are not necessarily indicative of success in law school or legal education.

On the first day of law school your GPA/LSAT means nothing to perfectly I cannot even remember what my LSAT score was.

At my school a few bragged about their LSAT score since it was well above the median etc, but two of those people ended up failing out of law school. You could score 180 on the LSAT if you do not study or are not capable of writing a law school essay you are not getting through 1L or passing the bar.

TAP seems like a program that tests these skills and if you get through the program you will likely do well in law school and pass the bar.

Gunner.

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Re: Widener TAP 2013
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2014, 02:55:06 PM »
I believe the ABA published a report where that school has a 51% first year attrition rate.
That means the MAJORITY of first year students are not there in 2L let alone graduate.

Maintain FL 350

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Re: Widener TAP 2013
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2014, 06:22:18 PM »
According to the ABA first year attrition is 30.5%.

Citylaw

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Re: Widener TAP 2013
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2014, 03:53:49 PM »
The Attrition stats on LSAC can be misleading. It is true 30.1% of the class or a total of 55 student did not attend Widener for 2L.

However, only 23 of the 55 student were dismissed for academic performance the other 32 left for other reasons 17 of that 32 were transfer students likely to higher ranked schools. A number of people after 1L either choose not to continue with their legal education, have a family emergency, are offered a job that does not require a J.D. etc.

In reality about 12% of the Widener 1L class failed out not 30%.

The purpose of this post is that many people believe law schools attempt or have to fail students out, which is absolutely not true. Remember at the end of the day a law school is a business and they want their students to succeed and pay tuition. ABA schools however, have an ethical obligation to dismiss students they feel are incapable of passing a bar exam since it would be wrong to take two more years of their life and $60,000 more in tuition fees when it is clear the student is not capable of passing the bar.

If a student cannot handle 1L there is no way they will pass the bar and schools academically dismiss students, but there is no requirement to do and every single law school in America would love to have 0% attrition; 100% bar passage rate; and every dime of student tuition collected, but that doesn't happen anywhere, because when dealing with 500 individual law students at any law school there will be personal issues that will lead to success or failure at any institution.

Gunner.

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Re: Widener TAP 2013
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 02:29:25 AM »
According to the ABA first year attrition is 30.5%.

I must have been thinking of Whittier.
That is still nearly a third though, that is huge.

Maintain FL 350

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Re: Widener TAP 2013
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 12:28:49 PM »
Citylaw brings up some good points.

Attrition rates have to be separated into academic/non-academic attrition, otherwise they make no sense. For example, I graduated from a part-time program where many of the students were balancing jobs and families along with law school. Our academic attrition was pretty low, but we had lots of people drop out because they couldn't handle the pressure, the expense, or they transferred.

Of course, at some lower ranked schools academic attrition is high because they're admitting people who didn't get in anywhere else. There are two ways to look at this practice. The conventional wisdom seems to be that these students are being ripped off by being admitted then failed out.

The thing I don't like about that theory is that it assumes that people have no personal agency whatsoever. No personal responsibility, no decision making power.

No one forces anyone to go to law school, and the requirements and expectations are available to anyone who takes five seconds to google them. Another view is that these schools are giving people an opportunity that they wouldn't normally have. And yes, there is some risk involved. But if the student works hard and dedicates themselves they will likely graduate, pass the bar, and realize their dreams.

Remember, a large majority of the people who begin law school will graduate and become lawyers. I meet lawyers literally every single day who couldn't get admitted to high ranked schools, went to a low ranked schools, and are successful practicing attorneys. I know quite a few who put their T1 counterparts to shame. It's all about the level of dedication you're willing to invest.   

 

Maintain FL 350

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Re: Widener TAP 2013
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 01:20:07 PM »
http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2013/02/what-has-happened-to-law-school-attrition.html

Interesting article, and pertinent to our conversation. According to this author, law school attrition is at a historic low. In 1966 attrition was 45% (!). It has been dropping since 1974, and is now around 10%.

It's all about perspective.

Gunner.

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Re: Widener TAP 2013
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 07:57:54 PM »
Citylaw brings up some good points.

Attrition rates have to be separated into academic/non-academic attrition, otherwise they make no sense. For example, I graduated from a part-time program where many of the students were balancing jobs and families along with law school. Our academic attrition was pretty low, but we had lots of people drop out because they couldn't handle the pressure, the expense, or they transferred.

Of course, at some lower ranked schools academic attrition is high because they're admitting people who didn't get in anywhere else. There are two ways to look at this practice. The conventional wisdom seems to be that these students are being ripped off by being admitted then failed out.

The thing I don't like about that theory is that it assumes that people have no personal agency whatsoever. No personal responsibility, no decision making power.

No one forces anyone to go to law school, and the requirements and expectations are available to anyone who takes five seconds to google them. Another view is that these schools are giving people an opportunity that they wouldn't normally have. And yes, there is some risk involved. But if the student works hard and dedicates themselves they will likely graduate, pass the bar, and realize their dreams.

Remember, a large majority of the people who begin law school will graduate and become lawyers. I meet lawyers literally every single day who couldn't get admitted to high ranked schools, went to a low ranked schools, and are successful practicing attorneys. I know quite a few who put their T1 counterparts to shame. It's all about the level of dedication you're willing to invest.   
Actually the opposite is true for some law schools (online ones mostly)