Law Students > Transferring

Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn

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blue54:
Honestly, I wouldn't go to law school right now unless you are admitted to a T14 or have a job lined up waiting for you after school.  I am a second year associate at a mid-sized law firm, located in a mid-sized city in the south.  I went to a T2 and graduated with honors.  We are currently looking to fill a position and received 104 resumes for one spot.  The starting salary at my firm is $50,000. The legal market is collapsing like a sand castle in a rain storm.  The only reason we are growing is because we specialize in a niche field.

Face it: your numbers suck.  Don't blame it on anything else but your ability to take a standardized test and get good grades.  If you suck at doing this now, you will most likely struggle in law school.  You aren't a special snowflake.  You aren't suddenly going to excel in law school when during undergrad you were merely adequate.  Law isn't your calling, so turn off Law & Order and find something more suitable to your talents and skills. Everyone has a place in life, but this isn't yours.  Law schools are a business, and they see 'sucker' written across your forehead, guaranteed by non-dischargeable loans.  The market is much different, akin to, ahem, real life.  It's all about competition.  The cream rises to the crop.  Those who have connections and went to highly ranked schools are the ones who get the jobs.

You want to go to law school at Appalachian, which has one of the worst job placements of all law schools and is located in the backwoods of Virginia, by all means, give them your money for a chance at hanging your own shingle in a market absolutely flooded by lawyers, experienced and inexperienced alike.  Sure, you won't know how to draft a pleading, answer discovery, or craft a settlement agreement.  You won't have access to Lexis, you won't know which judge prefers morning hearings, and you won't know how to conduct voir dire, but hey, you will be a lawyer. 

While you are visiting ALS, ask them for a complete breakdown of job placement statistics.  Ask them how many 2012 grads were hired by law firms, what size the law firms were, and the starting salary for these firms.  Ask them how many grads are practicing in careers that require bar passage.  Ask them how many went solo.  ALS doesn't publish this information publicly.  There's a reason.

Caveat emptor. 

jack24:
To the OP.

About 75 percent of LSAT takers did better than you on the test.   The LSAT may not be an accurate indication of overall intelligence or potential success as an attorney, but it does do a good job of testing things like speed, reading comprehension, processing horsepower, patience, and analytical discipline (to some extent).   It is true that the US news rankings are bunk, but employers know that the applicant pool to a T4 school is not as academically accomplished, so hiring out of a school like Appalachian is a risky proposition.  The chance the applicant is going to be less intelligent than his peers and competitors is very high.

Now, the Median LSAT at Appalachian is 148, so you are comparable to their overall class.    It would be an amazing feat for you to get in the top 25%, but it can be done with some hard work, in my opinion.

The Median LSAT at Uconn is 159, which is in the 77th percentile.   That is a significant difference.  Even in these recent years, there's something like 24,000 test takers between a 145 and a 159.

I don't write this email to be mean or anything, but I think it's important for you to heed the advice of the posters above, and don't anticipate a successful transfer.   Go to Appalachian if you believe that's a good place to graduate from.   

But I'm a little jaded. My school was ranked around 50, I was a law review editor and a moot court member in the top 25% of my class.  I applied to over 50 jobs, contacted over 300 attorneys, and networked my ass off.  I got a job as a lawyer for $48,000 with over 100k in debt.  My job is incredibly boring.  My friends who graduated three years earlier than me with virtually identical resumes started out at firms for $120k/yr.   They got hired during on campus interviews.  My 2L and 3L years, there were less than four employers for OCI.

I graduated with about 55,000 other graduates, and there were over 100,000 applications for law school in my cycle.   Fortunately, LSAC estimates that maybe less than 40,000 will attend lawschool this fall.  Unfortunately, the industry is only scheduled to create 9000 new jobs a year, and only 12,000-15,000 attorneys are expected to retire.   Hopefully a lot more will retire in the 2020s.

So, according to the LSAT, you are at a huge disadvantage.  Appalachian is at a huge disadvantage.  And the job market sucks ass.   Only 55% of the graduates from my school had a full-time job at 9 months after graduation in 2011.

livinglegend:
Listen to what you want Applachian is not going to make employers jump after you, but the reality is in the law whether you succeed or not is a lot more up to you than anything to do with your school. Furthermore, in response to Blue54 102 resumes for one spot is quite common for any position worth having.  For any nurse, pilot, architect, doctor, cop, firefighter, sales, etc job there will usually be 100 or more applications sent in for one position that is just the way it goes. Finding a job is tough.

Now OP Applachian is an ABA school and it will teach you the law. However, it is located in Grundy, Virginia and it will be difficult to get internships etc during school since it is in such a remote location and employers are not going to do OCI there it is out of the way and not Harvard. However, that doesn't mean you can't succeed and if being a lawyer is what you want to do then Applachian can make you a lawyer if you graduate and pass the bar.

There are people from every law school that find jobs and others that don't I can tell you from personal experience when I went to law school there were people that I knew would be fine and others I knew would not ever get hired. There was one guy in the top 20% of our class he was smart, but he would wear baggy stained clothes, he smelled, and he was a weirdo nobody was going to hire him until that stuff changed, which he never did and has not found a job despite passing the bar.

Another guy I knew got offered a few jobs, but he kept failing drug tests and getting his offers rescinded he has a problem with drugs. Both of these guys are listed as unemployed grads, but it has a lot more to do with them than anything related to our law school.

Bottom line if being a lawyer is really what you want then go to law school, but do not expect anything to be handed to you. Like anything worth having you will need to fight to succeed and it will not come easy. I wish you the best of luck in your legal career should you choose to go down that path.

mycousinvinny13:

--- Quote from: blue54 on February 14, 2013, 06:35:16 PM ---
Face it: your numbers suck.  Don't blame it on anything else but your ability to take a standardized test and get good grades.  If you suck at doing this now, you will most likely struggle in law school.  You aren't a special snowflake.  You aren't suddenly going to excel in law school when during undergrad you were merely adequate.  Law isn't your calling, so turn off Law & Order and find something more suitable to your talents and skills. Everyone has a place in life, but this isn't yours.  Law schools are a business, and they see 'sucker' written across your forehead, guaranteed by non-dischargeable loans.  The market is much different, akin to, ahem, real life.  It's all about competition.  The cream rises to the crop.  Those who have connections and went to highly ranked schools are the ones who get the jobs.

--- End quote ---

I created this thread for indivudals who actually attended a T4 and transfered to a T2, not for someone like you to post rude and uncalled for comments like the above quote. I understand my numbers are low and certainly do not need someone I do not even know to remind me and I am not expecting a hand out as you mentioned above.  Not that this is any of your business but, I am well networked as the majority of my family are attorneys. This is my calling and I am not going to let a standarize test prevent me from attending law school even if that means attending a lower ranked school with the goal of transferring.

Agian, refrain yourself from commemts that you made in my post to others. Nobody needs to be labeled as you labeled me. There is a difference from constructive criticism and rude comments.

Thanks

jack24:

--- Quote from: mycousinvinny13 on February 19, 2013, 09:51:47 PM ---
I created this thread for indivudals who actually attended a T4 and transfered to a T2, not for someone like you to post rude and uncalled for comments like the above quote. I understand my numbers are low and certainly do not need someone I do not even know to remind me and I am not expecting a hand out as you mentioned above.  Not that this is any of your business but, I am well networked as the majority of my family are attorneys. This is my calling and I am not going to let a standarize test prevent me from attending law school even if that means attending a lower ranked school with the goal of transferring.

Agian, refrain yourself from commemts that you made in my post to others. Nobody needs to be labeled as you labeled me. There is a difference from constructive criticism and rude comments.

Thanks

--- End quote ---

While I do think Blue54 goes a bit far, I hope you do recognize the challenges that lie ahead.   Now, if you have a job lined up with a family member (or if you are planning to hang your own shingle on day one), then none of the advice on this thread will be helpful.   Seriously, if that's the case, go to the cheapest law school you can find, and finish as fast as they'll let you.   Legal training is, by and large, a joke.  2L and 3L can be worthwhile, but they don't have to be.  I know plenty of people who studied irrelevant and easy courses for two years, and law school is hella easy if you are OK graduating in the bottom half.   

Transferring is just such a brutal prospect.  I went to a great school, but it was in a market I didn't want to work in.  I didn't get into the schools in the market I wanted to work.   When I looked into transferring to a school ranked around 35-55, I found that they only took 5 transfer students each year, but they got an incredible amount of applications.   They told me they still considered LSAT and UGPA, and that your 1L achievement only constituted about half of the decision factors.

This may not be the same for all schools, but it was certainly discouraging.    I found my job through networking, but it was really tough.  Sometimes you get lucky, and you find something fast.  I managed to convince three different hiring partners from medium sized firms to go to lunch with me.  Each one of them confessed to getting hundreds of resumes each month.  They said they didn't have many openings, but when they did, the only way to deal with the resume's was to use a  matrix and have their paralegals implement it for the first round.

For example, one partner said he would throw away any resume unless the student either went to a top 25 school, the top school in the region, or was in the top 25% of his class at another school.    He said he usually had 20-30 resumes from IVY league 3Ls or grads. 

Now, you may not be looking to work for a mid-sized firm, but this has a domino effect.  This means that you are competing with candidates like me for the lower level jobs.  As a result, you need to network like a champ, dominate your T4 (and/or get transferred to a T2), and be willing to take less desirable jobs, maybe even jobs that don't match your "calling."  The BLS and LSAC are estimating that there will still be 12,000-20,000 more law graduates than legal jobs in 2016, even though enrollment has fallen through the floor. 

So if it is your calling to practice family law in a medium market for around 45,000 a year, then I think you have a great shot.   But if you want to do mergers and acquisitions at a mid-sized firm, you are basically playing roulette.

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