Northwestern California University, School of Law.

[legend]

Well looking at these boards makes everyone feel inferior I went to a tier 2 and I feel self-conscious half the time I read these boards, but it really doesn't matter.

I saw a post on here or somewhere else where the guy went to Georgetown and he jokingly said he feels inferior. No matter what you do people will give you grief, but this is always a great quote from Teddy Roosevelt.

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat"

There will always be critics whether you go to Online school, CBE, Tier 4, Tier 3, Tier 2, University of Chicago instead of Harvard, etc. It never ends, but if your doing everything you can keep going there will be some falls along the way, obstacles to overcome, and self-doubt, but nobody in this world is perfect and any rational person is insecure about something. Just keep pushing knock out the bar and then hope for the best.

Competition will be fierce, law school is expensive, time-consuming, and not a guarantee, but if it is what you really want to do then go for it. Western State I imagine gives you the chance to take the bar in all 50 states even with the few issues they have had. If they entitle you to the bar-ticket that is all you need them for.

Good luck

[jonlevy]

Those are interesting stats on the FYLSE, good old fashioned correspondence beats out online and fixed facility in the pass rates.  My theory is that no amount of tech or classroom can compensate for lack of rote memorization for these students.

[Cher1300]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Roald and legend.    Western state has had some great bar pass rates over the last couple of years, which has been great for the school and promising for us as students.  Additionally, it has quite an alumni of successful attorneys.  Many DA's, judges, and other lawyers who have built up some medical mal practice businesses, etc.  Because of it's poor performance in the past, however, it still has a bit of a stigma. 

It is probably true that everyone thinks their school is inferior unless they are going to Harvard or Yale.  I'm thinking the students probably experience the same stress before finals and before taking the bar exam.  After first semester finals, I was just happy I could continue on and hoped to make it to my second year.  Now that I've made it, I'm stressing about making it next semester.  I'm not sure about anyone else, but it seems as though this feeling of anxiety might never go away! 

Those are interesting stats on the FYLSE, good old fashioned correspondence beats out online and fixed facility in the pass rates.  My theory is that no amount of tech or classroom can compensate for lack of rote memorization for these students.

I found that pretty interesting myself.  The percentage wasn't much higher but it was still higher overall.  However the bar pass rates for correspondence schools for the Bar in July of 2011 was lower than the Distance Learning and B&M schools.  But Distance Learning was still higher than unaccredited B&M schools. 

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=PL6VLVgQEIM%3d&tabid=2269&mid=3159

[legend]

Of course and you are right the anxiety is just beginning. Law school is a constant feeling of I should be doing X, Y, Z and then you see Bob over there doing A and you think he must have it right. Meanwhile Bob is looking at you doing X and he/she thinks they were doing it wrong.

As I have stated nobody really knows what they are doing. Every final I had I left with a feeling of "was that right" and I basically got straight A's through law school and I never came away with a feeling of I nailed it. The one time I had that feeling got a C+. 

Then the bar comes same anxiety and nobody can know everything. You watch people and think what are they doing, but as I have said before everyone is stressed out.

I personally know Harvard grads and some of said we didn't have that at our school or maybe that got rejected from Yale and are bitter. I imagine you continually feel like others must know what they are doing and somehow you missed the memo, but the further you get the more you come to realize everything in the law is a constant struggle and even when your out practicing your hoping for the best.

You don't "KNOW" if a jury is going to buy your opening statement, if a judge will accept your evidence argument, you just go for it and hope for the best. Be professional, use common sense, and be respectful, but Law is much more ART than SCIENCE.

Again good luck to anyone online, CBE, ABA, that chooses the law school path.

[jack24]

I'm sorry to reiterate what I've already said a few times, but passing a bar is so much more about the student than the school.  Can I know that for sure?  Absolutely not!  But I have gone to law school and taken the bar exam.   

Granted, the California bar is really hard.  The best school in my state has a 92% in-state passage rate, but only 12 of 25 passed the California bar.   So it is possible that certain schools can give you an edge in terms of strategy, but I find it very hard to believe that a student's choice between distance schools A, B, and C will have much of an impact on his bar passage unless one particular school did a better job of motivating you to prepare more or less.

[Maintain FL 350]

Just for purposes of illustrating why I am so critical of USNWR's ranking scheme:

The average for CA ABA schools was 62%, with most falling in the 50-60% range (a few schools with very high pass rates skews the average). Keeping in mind that CA has the toughest bar exam in the nation, consider the following:

As I stated earlier, Western State's Feb. 2012 first time pass rate was 92%, higher than every CA school except Stanford, and yet WSU is ranked T4.

University of San Francisco had a 32% pass rate and is ranked higher than WSU.

La Verne had a pass rate exactly equivalent to Davis and Hastings (50%), which they accomplished with 4% academic attrition as opposed to the 30% commonly seen at T4s. Nonetheless, Davis and Hastings are T1 and La Verne is T4.

Many T1 out of state law schools had pass rates which were significantly lower than CA T4s. I understand that bar pass rates are not the only metric to consider when evaluating schools, but I also think it speaks to the absurdity of the rankings scheme.

[FalconJimmy]

. Keeping in mind that CA has the toughest bar exam in the nation...

Why?  Because so many people fail?  You don't think the fact that so many people fail has something to do with the fact that virtually every other state requires ABA accreditation?

http://www.protectconsumerjustice.org/california-bar-exam-pass-rates-by-law-school.html

Seems like the bar passage rates for most of the schools in CA is 80% or higher. 

This red herring that California has the hardest bar exam simply because so many people fail it doesn't really bear scrutiny.

The reality is that California lets a whole lot of people sit for the bar exam who are grossly unqualified in most other states.

A few of them pass, and that's great.  But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that so many fail because the bar exam is so much harder.  It's far more likely that so many fail because they shouldn't be sitting for the bar exam in the first place and in most other states, they wouldn't be allowed to.

[FalconJimmy]

Many T1 out of state law schools had pass rates which were significantly lower than CA T4s. I understand that bar pass rates are not the only metric to consider when evaluating schools, but I also think it speaks to the absurdity of the rankings scheme.

If you look, it's very common for T4s to have very good bar passage rates.  It's also not uncommon for them to have better bar passage rates than schools that are superior, academically.

I couldn't tell you why, exactly.  maybe the tougher schools spend more time on more theoretical material.  maybe a lot of them have folks who go on to jobs in policy or other areas that don't require bar passage. 

as a person who attends a T4 with an impressive bar passage rate, I can tell you that from the first exam you take as a 1L, the entire exam process is designed to mirror the bar exam as closely as possible.  So, I think the T4s to a large degree, are more focused on bar passage.

It's not just california.  It's everywhere. 

[jonlevy]

DC has an equal or higher fail rate than California and those are almost all ABA takers.  The bar exams are actually not that different statewide, I believe the high fail rate has to do in part with differing grading rubrics. Illinois on the other hand has a high pass rate, is the bar exam easier?  I doubt it but the grading sure is.

Almost everyone takes a state specific bar review course so there should be no surprises on the exams.

. Keeping in mind that CA has the toughest bar exam in the nation...

Why?  Because so many people fail?  You don't think the fact that so many people fail has something to do with the fact that virtually every other state requires ABA accreditation?

http://www.protectconsumerjustice.org/california-bar-exam-pass-rates-by-law-school.html

Seems like the bar passage rates for most of the schools in CA is 80% or higher. 

This red herring that California has the hardest bar exam simply because so many people fail it doesn't really bear scrutiny.

The reality is that California lets a whole lot of people sit for the bar exam who are grossly unqualified in most other states.

A few of them pass, and that's great.  But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that so many fail because the bar exam is so much harder.  It's far more likely that so many fail because they shouldn't be sitting for the bar exam in the first place and in most other states, they wouldn't be allowed to.

[jack24]

California is not that hard?  Look at the data.  I'm not saying other places like DC and Nevada don't have difficult bar exams as well, but California's must be much harder than average.  (Even the format is very different)
http://blurblawg.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54f871a9c88330168e56bcf99970c-pi

A Sampling:

George Washington, 82% in California.  Overall = 93.9
Cornell has a 77% pass rate in california.  Overall = 92.1
Brigham Young University, 61% in California.  Overall = 96.2
University of Oregon, 37% in California.  Overall = 85.4
Syracuse, 29% in California.  Overall = 79.6