Northwestern California University, School of Law.

[mechtild]

Hi Nor-Cal,  I just graduated from NWCU.  Sitting for July Bar.  If you'd like to meet a bunch of us we have a Facebook page here: http://www.facebook.com/groups/28010380790/  Click on the Join Group button to post.   Barbara

[mechtild]

BTW, there is a lot of talk about if someone goes to an online school they won't be able to get a job.  Many threads by grads of traditional schools focus on getting a job.  Can get, hope to get, can't get.  A job.  With the horrific tuition debt they were snookered into shelling out they have to get a job.  Most folks who go to online schools already have a job. They're older, which is why they went or are going the online route.  They're not looking to "get a job."  By going to NWCU you can get a good legal education, without the debt, and without the worrisome need of having to "get a job", any job, to pay off that debt.  Freedom has it's advantages.  Including the advantage to quit law school if the person decides they don't like it at a minimum investment.  Same afterwards.  Don't like being a lawyer?  Fine the person has a nice JD on their resume & can go find some other place & way to live out their life.  For myself I've owned my own business for 24 years.  Lawyering is my fun retirement plan   I will never put my life in the hands of another person ever again.  That's what "having a job" is.  Putting one's present life in someone's else's hands.  Traditional law students are forced to do that.  ..... my clock...whatever that expression is.  Ticks me off big time!  All government backed student loans are meant to do is have a new little taxpayer enter the system, forced to enter the system, while they are walking the exit steps of law school.  In fact any school or college.  People think the government is loaning out money from the bottom of their hearts or something?  Hah!   Do law students think those job employment salary figures are meant to benefit the students?   

On the Cal Bar website compare the pass rates on the Baby Bar & the General Bar of NWCU to the other online schools over the last 5 years or so, and to their costs.  Then decide.

[calgal27]

I attempted them years ago.  they had no online classes,videos or anything.  Strictly correspondence.  I even have all the CDs they sent me for studying.  the cost is cheap but you get what you pay for.  if you want to save some money, tell them you have the CDs and see how much they knock off the price.  I'm sure it is not much then you could buy mine.   I am contemplating California School of Law. moe expensive but you have to attend class online twice a week.  that is a good way to learn.

[calvinexpress]

... You can also take the English QLTS after two years because England has a reciprocity agreement with California, same with the Ireland QLTT. You will not be welcomed in any other state besides California and DC.

QLTS? Tell us more.

[mechtild]

Things have changed since then.  Did they have the Blackboard when you were going, calgal?  Their videos are nothing to rave about.  I didn't bother with them.  Same with the CDs. But their online chats & video chats are terrific.  Jeff Fleming now works for NWCU too & he comes to some of the video chats.  Lots of fun   There is both a text and video chat for each level. When BabyBar is coming up they put on special chats for the takers to participate in.

 1Ls can only get into the 1L sessions and BabyBar chats.  Above 1L students can go to all the 2L-4L sessions.  Same with the Blackboard, where the Profs post questions & then respond to the students answers, using the Socratic method. (Drove me nuts!)  No requirement to do chats or Blackboard, but it's there for folks who care to participate.

[jonlevy]

... You can also take the English QLTS after two years because England has a reciprocity agreement with California, same with the Ireland QLTT. You will not be welcomed in any other state besides California and DC.

QLTS? Tell us more.

Go to law school first, pass the Cal bar, then have 2 years PQE, sign up, pay the fees, pass the exams:

http://www.qlts.com/qlts-assessments

[calvinexpress]

BTW, there is a lot of talk about if someone goes to an online school they won't be able to get a job.  Many threads by grads of traditional schools focus on getting a job.  Can get, hope to get, can't get.  A job.

A lawyer not being able to find a job has nothing to do with their online law J.D degree. There are lots of lawyers that attended brick and mortar ABA approved J.D programs that find can't work as lawyers either. If they can't a find work it's because they are not good writers or good public speakers. Most law firms will require a sample of the applicant's writing in addition to a face to face interview.

The new lawyers are failing the writing sample part of the interviews. Has nothing to do with where they attended law school.

I see ads in the online employment section all the time for associate attorneys. The employer does not care where you attended law school, he only cares whether you passed the state bar exam in that state. He would rather hire a licensed attorney that passed a state bar, and pay him/her the same money he would pay an unlicensed paralegal.

I think something is wrong with lawyers that say they can't find a job. If they can't find a job, then why not open up their own office and make their own job? As stated, their writing sample given to the employer is subpar and that is why they cant find a job.

The public defender office in every state are always hiring. However, they demand a writing sample. 
 

[calvinexpress]

... You can also take the English QLTS after two years because England has a reciprocity agreement with California, same with the Ireland QLTT. You will not be welcomed in any other state besides California and DC.

QLTS? Tell us more.

Go to law school first, pass the Cal bar, then have 2 years PQE, sign up, pay the fees, pass the exams:

http://www.qlts.com/qlts-assessments

Thanks, I was under the impression that somebody could go one year of law school, take the baby bar. Pass, then take the QLTS, then become a lawyer with only one year of online law school. So why bother taking the QLTS exam if you still have to attend 4 years of law school and pass the California baby bar and big bar? What is the purpose?

[Maintain FL 350]

BTW, there is a lot of talk about if someone goes to an online school they won't be able to get a job.  Many threads by grads of traditional schools focus on getting a job.  Can get, hope to get, can't get.  A job.

A lawyer not being able to find a job has nothing to do with their online law J.D degree. There are lots of lawyers that attended brick and mortar ABA approved J.D programs that can't work as lawyers either. If they can't a find it's because they are not good writers or good public speakers. Most law firms will require a sample of the applicant's writing in addition to a face to face interview. The new lawyers are failing the interviews. Has nothing to do with where they attended law school.

I see ads in the online employment section all the time for associate attorneys. The employer does not care where you attended law school, he only cares whether you passed the state bar exam in that state.

I think something is wrong with lawyers that say they can't find a job. If they can't find a job, then they could open up their own office and make their own job. As stated, their writing sample given to the employer is subpar and that is why they cant find work.

The public defender offices in every state are always hiring. However, they demand a writing sample. 
 

You should do a little market research (or gain some actual experience) before you make such broad claims. The PD offices in each county are absolutely, positively, NOT always hiring. The budgets of all California counties have been slashed dramatically over the last few years. PD, DA, City Attorney, County Counsel, and state legal departments have been severely impacted. Most PD/DA offices cannot even get the funding to replace attrition due to retirement, let alone create new positions. My local PD's office recently got permission from the Board of Supervisors to hire something like eight new PDs, the first hiring they've done in a couple of years. They received something like 300 applications for those eight positions, and hired a combination of experienced criminal defense attorneys and lawyers who had been working for free hoping that a position would open up.

You're right that an attorney with bad writing skills or bad intwerview skills is screwed, regardless of where they graduated from. OTOH, the fact that an applicant submits an impressive writing sample is not sufficient to get the interview in such a competitive market. When you're competing against hundreds (or even dozens) of applicants, more than a few will have great writing and interviewing skills. Government law departments are in a position now to be much pickier than they have been in the past, and yes, they will look at where you went to law school.

If you've read any of my posts on this or other topics you'll see that I'm not a snob when it comes to legal education. My own degree is from a small, regional school. But I have personal, recent experience with government law offices, and hiring is much more competitive than you seem to think. At both the office I worked at, and the office my wife (a local government attorney) currently works at, an online or unaccedited grad would not have gotten an interview no matter how good their writing sample was. And if you can't get the interview, who cares how good your interpersonal communication skills are? A Calbar grad might have gotten an interview if they had 5-10 years of relevant experience, but unquestionably there is a strong preference for ABA grads.

It's possible that in a rural county with fewer applicants the results would be different, or that small firms would not be quite so competitive.

[Duncanjp]

BTW, there is a lot of talk about if someone goes to an online school they won't be able to get a job.  Many threads by grads of traditional schools focus on getting a job.  Can get, hope to get, can't get.  A job.  With the horrific tuition debt they were snookered into shelling out they have to get a job.  Most folks who go to online schools already have a job. They're older, which is why they went or are going the online route.  They're not looking to "get a job."  By going to NWCU you can get a good legal education, without the debt, and without the worrisome need of having to "get a job", any job, to pay off that debt.  Freedom has it's advantages.  Including the advantage to quit law school if the person decides they don't like it at a minimum investment.  Same afterwards.  Don't like being a lawyer?  Fine the person has a nice JD on their resume & can go find some other place & way to live out their life.  For myself I've owned my own business for 24 years.  Lawyering is my fun retirement plan   I will never put my life in the hands of another person ever again.  That's what "having a job" is.  Putting one's present life in someone's else's hands.  Traditional law students are forced to do that.  ..... my clock...whatever that expression is.  Ticks me off big time!  All government backed student loans are meant to do is have a new little taxpayer enter the system, forced to enter the system, while they are walking the exit steps of law school.  In fact any school or college.  People think the government is loaning out money from the bottom of their hearts or something?  Hah!   Do law students think those job employment salary figures are meant to benefit the students?

You draw an important jobs distinction between ABA and non-ABA students, a point that seems to fly over the heads and under the radar of those who melodramatically predict failure if one does not attend an ABA school. Nobody disputes the greater prestige of an ABA degree and the advantages that attach to it. Years ago, I would not have thought to go anywhere else. And yes, a percentage of non-ABA grads become victim to the underlying truth of such warnings. But the ABA has its victims as well, which needs no addressing here. More importantly, time changes one's needs and goals, and not every prospective law student wants to work in biglaw. Besides, the percentage that actually lands and survives in biglaw represents only a fraction of employed attorneys. Not every prospective law student wants to leave her home state. Not every prospective law student is concerned with finding work at all after passing the bar. And not every prospective law student can justify the exorbitant cost that an ABA program requires, even if the cash to pay is readily available. That's why I chose to attend a CBE school. I'm 15 years into a career that I love with hundreds of connections and colleagues. It would be asinine to abandon my career path now to take a job defending criminals or hoping to find an entry level position in biglaw. CBE schools — and online schools especially — generally serve a different demographic than ABA schools. Older, experienced professionals who are looking to advance their current careers and rise above the ranks of laymen can get a lot of mileage from a non-ABA education, while saving themselves a small fortune in the process. Non-ABA students are frequently highly driven people who have but one immediate goal: get the license. The elitist claim that nobody would opt for anything less than ABA if the money and the intellect were not lacking ignores a fundamental reality: not every prospective law student needs the ABA advantage to derive a significant benefit from a legal education.