Cooley vs Capital

[fortook]

You're kind of missing the point.  Of course its not fair.  But by all means keep posting Cooley comparisons with top 14 and T2 schools only to argue what we all know- Cooley sucks yes, but you're not showing that.

No point to Cooley bashing, especially so badly.  We all know about Cooley.

[fortook]

Lets come at this from another angle: Ask the question is Mitt Romney rich?  Well that all depends on who he is compared to.  Is he rich compared to you or me or 99.9999999% of people: yes.  Is he rich compared to Bill Gates?  Is he rich compared to Mark Zuckerburg?

He is rich, but I could distort that by comparing him to the super rich.

What you are doing is the inverse: Is a homeless guy poor?  Yes, but why are you trying to show that by comparing a homeless guy to Bill Gates?

[fortook]

Meh

[HolmesBoy]

A comparison with Stanford- are you  f. in kidding me?

I figured john4040 was drawing a comparison between Cooley's rankings, where it ranks itself #2 nationally, and the U.S. News rankings, where Stanford is ranked #2 nationally.

[john4040]

Cooley sucks yes, but you're not showing that.

What an odd post.

And no, some people do not believe that Cooley sucks.  Apparently people still find value in it and are willing to take the risks for god knows what reason.  This thread is proof of that.

The fact that OP is even considering either of these schools as viable options tells me either that (1) s/he doesn't know how bad it really is out there for recent law grads (especially from those two schools); or (1) knows how bad it is, but is batsh1t crazy enough to go.

[fortook]

You there OP?  What is happening here?  Who could possibly care about Cooley's internal rankings- I read them for comedic purposes, but ofc I didn't take it seriously.  It actually hurts their case more than anything.

Does anyone, anyone here think the way to put down Cooley is by comparing it to a T14?  Really?

How about the cold employment stats?  How about the attrition rate?  How about alum dissatisfaction?  Bar passage rates? tuition? Grading curves? All, ofc, looked at independently and objectively- not compared to the 3rd most successful school in the country.  Its a weak approach.

[john4040]

Does anyone, anyone here think the way to put down Cooley is by comparing it to a T14?  Really?

How about the cold employment stats?  How about the attrition rate?  How about alum dissatisfaction?  Bar passage rates? tuition? Grading curves? All, ofc, looked at independently and objectively- not compared to the 3rd most successful school in the country.  Its a weak approach.

I guess you missed the part where I compared Cooley to two Teir 2s and it still looked horrible?

[legend]

 I am willing to bet nobody with these strong opinions has set foot on the Cooley or Capital campus, and likely has never been to Ohio or Michigan.  Furthermore, you have no idea what the OP wants if they wanted to start a small family practice in a rural county in Ohio what is wrong with either of those schools? If they were trying for Federal Clerkship/Big Law then these school would not be appropriate.  I imagine OP knows Cooley and Captial are not on pace with the T14. 

With that said I would like to attempt to answer OP's original question Cooley over Capitol? First off nobody can actually tell you what is best for you, and anonymous internet posters are certainly not the best source of information. . What law school to attend is a highly personal decision. With that said Cooley does have some suspicious numbers if you look on LSAC for example they graduate 1000 JD's in a small town in Michigan. I am making an assumption, but based on those numbers I think Capitol who graduates only 200 would be better able to cater to their students.

http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Publications/2011OG/aba1099.pdf Capital numbers 194 J.D's awarded last year

Cooley 953 J.D's awarded http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Publications/2011OG/aba1796.pdf

LOCATION
The LSAC numbers favor Capitol without question. There are 200 academic fail-outs at Cooley and about 200 transfers out making for 400 students gone after first year. This can be found in the LSAC attrition rate.  However, these numbers are just one of the many factors to consider in your highly personal decision of what school to attend. For example maybe you have numerous friends, family, etc in Lansing. Being around them for three years will help you through school, and more importantly friends, family, can help you far more in getting a job than whatever school is on your J.D. "I know exceptions exist", but for the most part if your going anywhere outside of the T14 your credentials won't matter as much in finding employment as the people in your life.

The same may be true of Capital if you friends, family, etc in Columbus then it may be the better option.

COST
The cost is about the same Capital is 3k more than Cooley, but both schools are on pace with the normal cost of ABA schools across the country.

CULTURE:
Go to these schools and see what you think. Everybody seems to have such strong feelings about Cooley, but never been there or met anyone. In my law school days I was in a lot of Mock Trial Competitions and low-behold Cooley had teams there and so did Georgetown, Harvard. The few Cooley people I met seemed like good solid people and so did everyone else. I don't what Cooley or Capital's culture is like, but whether you will fit in is again your own personal feeling. 

INTERNET BASHING:
As for the internet bashing about Cooley remember those who know the least know it the loudest.. Their numbers seem a little suspect, but judge the school for yourself. Remember everyone that is posting on this board and others are anonymous posters and people are much more confident saying things anonymously to a computer screen than they are in real life. More importantly I doubt anyone with these strong opinions has been to Cooley. However, I could be 110% wrong in everything I have said, but I have no repercussions so I can really say whatever I want as can anyone else on this board and others. So take my advice and every other anonymous internet poster's advice with a major grain of salt.

CONCLUSION:
Based on the very limited knowledge I have on both of these schools and having absolutely no idea about your specific situation I would say Capital based on them having far fewer students, but remember whatever you decide it will be three years of your life and 100K+ of your money so do what is best for you.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Maintain FL 350]

Cooley has a bad rep, no question about it. But comparing Cooley to T2s like LSU and Houston is almost as flawed as the Stanford comparison. Both LSU and Houston have pretty good regional reps and much, much higher admissions criteria. The most accurate comparison would be between Cooley and other T4s in its region: Detroit-Mercy, Valparaiso, Cleveland State, Capital, Toledo, etc. Cooley may place poorly compared to those schools too, but at least you'd be comparing apples to apples.

One of the biggest problems with assessing most law schools is that post-grad employment date is often based on small number of alumni responses. This is especially true among the T3-T4 crowd. Obviously very few Cooley grads are getting hired at firms with 25+ attorneys, but again, is this different from most T3-T4s nationwide?

I'd like to know how many Cooley grads are making a living practicing family law, for example, in solo/small firms in the upper midwest. How many are prosecutors and public defenders? So much emphasis is placed on midlaw/biglaw, that it has become the primary criteria for appraising a school. I don't think that any reasonable person can defend certain aspects of Cooley's reputation (like the abominable attrition rate), but I'm not sure that the criteria by which they're judged is always fair.

Historically, the role of small local law schools (although Cooley's not so small) has been to produce attorneys who will fill non-prestigious but necessary niches: storefront law offices, local public interest, and local government. The fact is, someone has to serve the legal needs of the middle class by handling divorces, bankruptcies, and DUIs affordably. I'd be curious to know how both Capital and Cooley grads fare in those roles. 

[HolmesBoy]

Roald,

The employment stats you are looking for can be found here (the entire ABA list):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aik9aY0xMn8JdHZpRzRGNmpIVnFMMTJ0bXNRS0NBd3c&gid=4

It's not quite as specific as you'd like (family law, etc.), but it provides great insight into how schools are doing. It also provides stats for each of the schools you mentioned above.