Baby Bar

[cerealkiller]

what is the meaning of baby bar i dont know i think that it might be a bar for babies only and i want to say thatbaby bar means a bar for babies where only babies are allowd and the came there only for babies in a male baby have a female baby for thier recreation
thanks for listning my comment

 

[GlenRPierre]

I also am new to posting here, but have been quite disappointed with the negativity on these boards.  I'm exploring law school options (in fact my wife is as well), and as a "non-traditional" applicant (ie older working person) I thought it would be beneficial to others to share my experiences as I think through my options.    Assuming I attend a school that requires the Baby Bar, I don't need to re-hash the whole debate about CA distance schools, etc., or hear the whole "all distance law schools are bad" game and dance over and over. 

Maurader, I have two close friends that passed the Baby Bar on their first try and also have two family members who are CA-barred attorneys.  Now, I don't purport that this makes me an expert, but in both cases, the friends who took the baby bar studied independently and did tons of practice essays.  When they did the practice essays, they literally took their answers and compared them to the model answer line by line to see the differences between their answers and the sample answers.  They used the resources on CA's website.  Another trick they used was to use actual bar questions.  Now, the regular bar questions are cross-overs, but it made the "issue spotting" piece even more challenging once they got the basics--then they only analyzed the isues that were contracts, torts or crim.

There's also a service where students who fail the bar submit their answers to this website that aggregates answers from all of the different administrations of the bar.  Sometimes people fail by only a few points, but when you fail, you get your essays back with a SCORE, so that service is great because a single essay question has a variety of real anwers with real grades.  I think it's for the regular bar only--not sure. That's how my youngest brother studied a few years back.  PM me and I'll see if I can track down the name of the website--don't know what it is off the top of my head.

[Duncanjp]

I also am new to posting here, but have been quite disappointed with the negativity on these boards. 

Welcome to the reality of law school forums, Glen. Negativity I can handle. But I really struggle with the lack of civility and petulant disposition of so many of those who post on law school forums, whether this one or others. Law school forums are unequivocally the rudest topical forums I have ever experienced on the internet. I might post more often if I thought I could get a polite, vigorous discussion about issues and points of view, which can be thoroughly enjoyable. I like banter and I respect alternate points of view. But the second you express an opinion of any kind on a law school forum, those who disagree frequently seize the chance to launch reprehensible personal attacks. And they don't really warrant a response because replying just gives them fuel to keep showing how juvenile they are and how incapable they are of serious discourse. I would have expected more from law students. A lot more.

That said, Falconjimmy, Fortook, Cerealkiller, Roald, and a couple of others on this forum are very capable of holding intelligent conversations about issues without telling you to stfu just because they disagree.

[GlenRPierre]

That said, Falconjimmy, Fortook, Cerealkiller, Roald, and a couple of others on this forum are very capable of holding intelligent conversations about issues without telling you to stfu just because they disagree.

Thanks for the heads up, Duncanjp.  I'll look forward to future conversations with them (and you), and see where the road takes me. 

Incidentally,  I completely agree that it would be great if all law students, from elite traditional law schools like Harvard, to mid-tier B&M law schools like  Hastings, to online law schools were required to take the Baby Bar.  With all the emphasis on rankings, one would assume the Baby Bar passage rates would be a great proxy for other criteria currently used to determine the best law schools.  Also, it would give students an early "heads up" about their prospects for passing the CA bar exam early in their educations, before incurring large amounts of debt. 

And, although the performance tests are a good start, it would also be great if there were some measure of graduates' ability to handle the basic blockling & tackling of being a practicing attorney (i.e. can you draft an engagement letter, do you really understand how to avoid co-mingling funds, etc.).

cheers!

[SoCalLawGuy]

While the baby bar is the hardest law school bar exam I know, it is true that some manage to actually pass it. I think the key is to study so hard and not give up no matter what. After 5-6 months of intensive studying you should pass, if you took everything seriously.

[jennid1234]

I failed my first try, 2nd try is in October.  It is hard but I failed 537 - one multiple choice question for the 2nd evaluation - which might have passed me, received 60 - 60 - 60 and 65 on my essays = 77% on the multiple choice - but the degree of difficulty killed me my 308 was lowered to 289, waiting for my essays to see what issues I missed and a professor at the school will evaluate what I need to do.  I'm a Concord student - we have a program called Second Time Sucess - it is helping me prepare for the test.  Concord First I started in middle of May - could kick myself for not starting earlier, so I could pass on the first try.  Did about 1600 multiple choice, about 50 essays, 10 were graded by a professor at the law school.  First right out your rule statements, memorize them, sing them, go over them in your head in the shower, in bed. Take small breaks, if you work like I do, live, eat and breath - Criminal Law, Torts and Contracts.  If you are not in a review course - sign up for one right now.  If you have six weeks to prepare and haven't started, working full time - you might pass on your first try.  I'm lucky, I have my crim law down, now I'm hitting torts.  I've heard people like Gould - google it with FYLSE.  AND GOOD LUCK

[RLS90]

Jennid1234,

How is it possible that you did so poorly on the essays, yet received a 77% on the MBE questions? Such circumstances are a complete distortion of how things work in these types of exams. Similarly, other people on the forum who have failed the FYLSE also claim high scores on the MBE, yet poor scores on the essays.

For you to score in the 60's on the essay portion means that you were objectively bad at understanding how to apply the law to a set of facts. The threshold for law scores on the essay portion start at 40 - which means you only received 20-25 more points than the MINIMUM on each essay. Yet, miraculously, you were able to understand the proper application of the law on the MBE section? This, and other claims made by people in your exact situation who have posted on this board claiming scores as high as 85% on the MBE rings extremely odd. Indeed, how can one score an 85% on the MBE, yet fail the exam based on the poor performance on the essays? It just makes no sense.

[RLS90]

Here's another reason so many people fail the Baby Bar: Most of the people taking it are complete morons who don't belong anywhere near the law.

For example, when I took the Baby Bar this past October 2012, not one, not two, but three people mentioned that the second tort question on the essay portion (question 4) involved the application of ultrahazardous activity and/or strict liability.

The fact pattern dealt with a woman who ran a day care center and her next door neighbor was always feeding stray cats and the woman who owned the day care center was worried that one of the cats might bite her students at some point in the future. So, to get rid of the cats, who had a habit of pooping in the sandbox, she poured ammonia in the sandbox and one of the kids ate the sand and got sick from ammonia poisoning.

Now, the question asked us to analyze a causes of action for negligence against the neighbor and the owner of the day care. As a threshold issue, the daycare center owner has a duty of care established under the invitee standard of premises liability because the children's parents pay for the children to be on the property. As for strict liability, the pouring of ammonia into the sandbox does not suffice, in any way, as a strict liability issue. Strict liability requires that the (1) activity be inherently dangerous, (2) is uncommon to the geographic area, (3)cannot be made safe even with the highest level of care, and (4) whose risks outweigh its social utility. That being said, pouring ammonia into a sandbox is not inherently dangerous. Ammonia is an everyday household cleaning product which is commonly found under the kitchen sinks of most Americans. While the daycare lady may be liable in negligence, she is certainly not strictly liable for an ultrahazardous activity.

Now, as to the strict liability for the neighbor: Two shmucks, one dumber than the next, said to me that the neighbor was strictly liable because the cats were wild animals. I didn't even get into it with these dummies, but it is a well-settled judicial principle that "wild" animals are animals that are not domesticated. Thus, cows, chickens, bulls, sheep, goats, horses, dogs, and yes, even cats - stray, wild, or otherwise - are not considered wild animals for the purposes of strict liability. Even if the neighbor knew that these cats had vicious propensities, she still would not be liable because she did not own the cats.

Now, I just wrote this analysis off the top of my head in a little less than 6 minutes. If you aren't able to do the same, then you shouldn't be taking the Baby Bar.

[Maintain FL 350]

How is it possible that you did so poorly on the essays, yet received a 77% on the MBE questions? Such circumstances are a complete distortion of how things work in these types of exams.

I'm not so sure about that. The multiple choice and essay sections are fundamentally different (that's why the bar tests both formats). Both portions of the exam involve the same black letter law, but each requires a very different output from the taker. The MBEs require the taker to simply identify and locate the rule. The essays are, in my opinion, more complex. The taker must not only regurgitate the rule, but apply the rule(s) to multiple facts and create an easy-to-read, logical essay under timed conditions. There are simply more moving parts, and I see how someone might do considerably better on the MBEs than on the essays.

BTW, on the bar 65 is passing for the essays. Is that the same for the FYLSE? If so a 60 doesn't seem so bad, certainly capable of being remedied.

 

 

[Groundhog]

BTW, on the bar 65 is passing for the essays. Is that the same for the FYLSE? If so a 60 doesn't seem so bad, certainly capable of being remedied.

Sounds like some jennid knows the law but needs more essay practice. Have someone look at the essays to see what simple things you can do to improve your formatting and style.