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Author Topic: Perks to an LLM  (Read 3097 times)

sollicitus

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Perks to an LLM
« on: April 10, 2012, 09:21:04 PM »
People like to talk smack about LLM's but there must be perks for people to keep enrolling in them.
Are there any LLM students on this forum, LLM grads, or those planning to enroll? If so why? What do you view as the perks? There must be some.

john4040

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Re: Perks to an LLM
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2012, 03:17:06 AM »
Perks:

(1) You are a foreign student, but you backdoor your way into US legal practice through an LLM;
(2) You were not originally qualified for Biglaw, but you get a tax LLM from one of the top schools and backdoor your way into Biglaw.

/thread.

sollicitus

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Re: Perks to an LLM
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2012, 02:39:03 PM »
Perks:

(1) You are a foreign student, but you backdoor your way into US legal practice through an LLM;
(2) You were not originally qualified for Biglaw, but you get a tax LLM from one of the top schools and backdoor your way into Biglaw.

/thread.

So basicly only if needed to get licensed or if you have a 2.5 from drake and want to get into a harvard mans firm?

Does the LLM license thing work in all states? If so do you think an online grad with an ABA LLM could pull it off too?

john4040

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Re: Perks to an LLM
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 03:03:48 AM »
So basicly only if needed to get licensed or if you have a 2.5 from drake and want to get into a harvard mans firm?

Does the LLM license thing work in all states? If so do you think an online grad with an ABA LLM could pull it off too?

Your first sentence is correct (assuming that the grad from Drake got a Tax LLM and did well).  Generally, Tax LLMs are the only LLMs that can give a significant boost to a non T-14 US law grad in the Biglaw market. 

Now that I've put more thought into it, let me add a 3rd reason to get an LLM:  (3) US Law graduate graduated summa or magna and wants to break into legal academia. 

As to your second question, see pages 14 - 19 of this:  http://www.ncbex.org/assets/media_files/Comp-Guide/CompGuide.pdf
You will see that New York and California, two of the largest jurisdictions for legal work, allow foreigners to sit for the bar after completing the LLM.  In other states, the LLM allows foreigners to fulfill the "Legal education in English common law" and "Additional education at an ABA-approved law school" prongs that are often required.

sollicitus

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Re: Perks to an LLM
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 03:03:28 PM »
All good perks.

I take it that the LLM with a CBE JD dosn't do the same trick then? (unless CA declares itself a Republic again someday, so here's hoping for that Taft grads! ;) )

Why do you think then so many american grads still get non tax LLM's? I ask since there seem to be them offered at nearly every law school.


john4040

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Re: Perks to an LLM
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2012, 03:47:25 PM »
Why do you think then so many american grads still get non tax LLM's? I ask since there seem to be them offered at nearly every law school.

They're hoping for the best.  But, more times than not, it just doesn't pan out.

LLMs are known as the cash cows of law schools.  The schools do it because they can.  They care not about the desparate law students they lure in.  Afterall, how else will they fund their own salaries? 

Back in the old days (when there weren't so many lawyers around), an LLM was more valuable.  You'll notice that a lot of older lawyers made it into Biglaw with bullsh1t LLMs, like an LLM in "Litigation".  Today, the jig is up - an LLM rarely carries any weight.

sollicitus

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Re: Perks to an LLM
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2012, 05:02:10 PM »
Why do you think then so many american grads still get non tax LLM's? I ask since there seem to be them offered at nearly every law school.

They're hoping for the best.  But, more times than not, it just doesn't pan out.

LLMs are known as the cash cows of law schools.  The schools do it because they can.  They care not about the desparate law students they lure in.  Afterall, how else will they fund their own salaries? 

Back in the old days (when there weren't so many lawyers around), an LLM was more valuable.  You'll notice that a lot of older lawyers made it into Biglaw with bullsh1t LLMs, like an LLM in "Litigation".  Today, the jig is up - an LLM rarely carries any weight.

Do you think that is because there are just too many earning the LLM then? I know a lot of people complain about there being "too many college grads these days" (sometimes refering to PhD's and MBA's but often just any college grad at all, which is nuts since less than a third even finish a BA leaving almost as many unable to fully read and write at GED level)

I can see the supply/demand aspect of it as far as the LLM part goes.

Getting off subject a bit for a moment, do you think the number of BA grads has been a good or bad thing for the nation? I ask since yes there are more people able to do each trade but growing up I couldn't make it a day without hearing teachers cry about how "we are falling behind the Japanese, if we were all smarter we'd do better as a nation and have a better economy" So now I hear the never ending converse of that. What's your take on it? More educaton = better or = worse, and why?

john4040

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Re: Perks to an LLM
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 07:08:59 AM »
Do you think that is because there are just too many earning the LLM then? I know a lot of people complain about there being "too many college grads these days" (sometimes refering to PhD's and MBA's but often just any college grad at all, which is nuts since less than a third even finish a BA leaving almost as many unable to fully read and write at GED level)

I can see the supply/demand aspect of it as far as the LLM part goes.

Oversupply is only part of the problem.  Demand has significantly dropped off as well.  Employers have taken the position (rightfully, IMO) that a JD is all that is necessary to guage practice potential, and that the slight educational benefit gained from the LLM rarely overcomes lackluster JD performance or lack of actual work experience.

Getting off subject a bit for a moment, do you think the number of BA grads has been a good or bad thing for the nation? I ask since yes there are more people able to do each trade but growing up I couldn't make it a day without hearing teachers cry about how "we are falling behind the Japanese, if we were all smarter we'd do better as a nation and have a better economy" So now I hear the never ending converse of that. What's your take on it? More educaton = better or = worse, and why?

(1) I think this country needs to focus more on the maths and sciences.  Innovation is key to the growth of the US;
(2) I think that too many people are going to college in the US.  Some people have no business going to college and should, instead, learn a craft.  Many people go to college and don't learn a damned thing - in fact, my high school offered a far more rigorous education than my college; and
(3) Teachers are self-interested.  More students = more $$$.

sollicitus

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Re: Perks to an LLM
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2012, 08:06:41 PM »
So then should we start encouraging people NOT to go to college?

john4040

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Re: Perks to an LLM
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2012, 12:47:01 AM »
Yes.  Raise the admission standards and erect higher barriers to getting federal loans.

People won't simply choose not to go to college.  Everyone thinks they're a special little snowflake - afterall, their mothers told them so.