Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Anyone getting scared about their decision to go to law school  (Read 8842 times)

jbean29

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
    • Email
Between the articles, this forum, another forum I am on.. all I keep hearing is about how I will end up in debt without a job.

I have no other choice to attend a 4 tier at this point, and I am pretty confident that I will be able to transfer out.. that is my plan, but this is the rest of my life and I am about to get into a lot of debt and be thrown into a not great job market in 3 years.. I really don't want to regret ignoring everything I have been hearing.

But I honestly do want to be an attorney more than anything, and have always wanted to.


legend

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 201
    • View Profile
    • legalmatch
Re: Anyone getting scared about their decision to go to law school
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 04:06:31 PM »
Well first thing you need to do is not take anonymous internet posters very seriously including me. I realize that getting everything this way is the easiest to access, but you have to think spending hours a day whining on the internet might have something to do with their struggles to find a job. They might just making the whole situation up as well bottom line is me, and anyone else on LSD, Top Law Schools, etc is kind of full of it and stories, experiences, etc get exaggerated or somebody is trying to sell you something. So just don't take it to seriously one way or another.

No with that said is the legal job market great? No it is not, but neither is anything else at the moment. The reality is finding a job has always been hard coming out of law school. Talk to practicing attorneys and ask how they got their start most of them will tell you it was not glamorous. I know mine wasn't, but it is going well now. The first two years out of law school though I struggled doing doc review and other B.S depressing jobs, but I eventually found something I really enjoy and have been at it for three years, and now I am glad I went to law school. There were certainly times when I questioned my decision during law school, while studying for the bar, and when looking for work after graduation. However, always remember education is a long term-investment and you have the right motivation for going to law school, which is you want to be a lawyer.

As for the Tier 4 thing I will be real and tell you are more than likely not going to transfer out. 100% of students at every ABA school are smart, hard working, motivated, and 100% of them truly believe they will be in the top 10 or 20%, which is where you need to be transfer. You can see how that math plays out there and there is a 80 to 90% chance you won't be in good enough academic standing to transfer out. Does that mean your legal career is over? No. There are plenty of good lawyers from Tier 4 schools and plenty of poor lawyers from tier 1. Remember U.S. News is a magazine nothing more and it can't guarantee how good of a lawyer someone will be. Furthermore, there are really weird that couldn't find a job at McDonald's in every law school, medical school, college in America. Your personality, work ethic, and ambition is going to play a big role in whether or not you succeed.

I won't say that going to a Tier 4 is better than going to a Tier 1, but getting into law school is an accomplishment in and of itself and something to be proud of. It is unfortunate that so many students feel so inferior, because an unregulated for profit-magazine in Pennsylvania says X schools is better than Y school.

I wish you the best of luck in your legal career, and sadly me nor anyone else can guarantee whether it will work out or not. However, law school is like any other big commitment, and it is scary and the debt is a real thing to consider. I would also be willing to be your first few years out of school won't be glamorous, but no matter what profession you start in it's not to fun working your way up. Again Good Luck to you.


john4040

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone getting scared about their decision to go to law school
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2012, 04:44:13 AM »
I have no other choice to attend a 4 tier at this point, and I am pretty confident that I will be able to transfer out..

BWAAHAHAHAHA!!!  You and everyone else at your T4 are "pretty confident" that they will transfer out.  Since only the top 5-10% will have that opportunity, that leaves a good 90-95% that are SOL.  You shouldn't go to a law school in hopes that you will transfer out - the odds are stacked pretty heavily against you.  But, good luck to you, you'll need it!

getting into law school is an accomplishment in and of itself and something to be proud of.

No.  It used to be an accomplishment - until more and more law schools opened up that started admitting anyone with a pulse.

sollicitus

  • Guest
Re: Anyone getting scared about their decision to go to law school
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2012, 06:46:35 PM »
Between the articles, this forum, another forum I am on.. all I keep hearing is about how I will end up in debt without a job.

I have no other choice to attend a 4 tier at this point, and I am pretty confident that I will be able to transfer out.. that is my plan, but this is the rest of my life and I am about to get into a lot of debt and be thrown into a not great job market in 3 years.. I really don't want to regret ignoring everything I have been hearing.

But I honestly do want to be an attorney more than anything, and have always wanted to.

I am confused. How can you "have no other choice" but to attend a T4 and still be sure you will be able to transfer out? Do you even understand that most of those who do, are 100% scholarships with 170 LSAT's who attended to save money and then transfered out when they finally got better offers elsewhere?

You know all this right?

If your "only choice" is purely financial or geographic, then you may be right. If it is due to GPA or LSAT, you are beyond wrong. Just accept it and move on. Even someone with a 2.0 in undergrad and a 150 LSAT can still get enough C's to graduate. Don't sweat that part, but don't lie to yourself either.

sollicitus

  • Guest
Re: Anyone getting scared about their decision to go to law school
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2012, 06:49:45 PM »
I just noticed the part where you said you will "be in a lot of debt" at the T4. You are there for the "only choice" AND having to pay a "lot of debt" for it, so you can NOT be the 170 lsat and 3.9 GPA.

You will NOT transfer out. (period).

You should still be able to graduate since the VAST majority still do (even T4's have over 70% pass)
Just accept that fact right now, or it is a waste.

blue54

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone getting scared about their decision to go to law school
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2012, 09:48:40 PM »
I would avoid law school at all costs right now, especially a tier four. Yes, I am an anonymous poster, but when there are hundreds, if not thousands, of us out here talking about how bad it is, if law schools are getting sued, if law grads are struggling to find a job that just pays 40K per year without benefits and all of this is well documented at reputable news outlets such as Bloomberg and the New York Times, you cannot ignore the weight of evidence and think otherwise. STAY AWAY!!!

Where do I get my information from? Most of it is personal. I graduated last year from a T2 (which basically means a T4 in this economy).  Very few of my friends right now have jobs, and those of us who are lucky enough to have a job in the legal field are pulling in around 50K.  But Bloomberg, NYT, Wall Street Journal, lawsuits, scam blogs, it's everywhere.  Don't be an idiot and ignore all of noise.

Furthermore, don't listen to this crap argument "yeah, but you will struggle to find a job in any other field. May as well go for it."  What a stupid, illogical argument.  "Yeah, you may as well take on 150K of non-dischargeable debt to wait at tables/be a barrista at Starbucks/go solo and get sued for legal malpractice. That makes total sense."  I have an idea: take your B.S. in a useless humanities subject and go teach English overseas.  You will make about what you would make as a first year associate at a law firm, without a 2000 hour billable requirement and an egomaniac of a boss demanding you take two depositions per day for weeks on end.

Before I file a lawsuit, I make sure I do some investigation.  I do a background check on my client, research case law, etc.  If I were contemplating law school, a simple Google search would be all it would take to make me run very, very far away.  I was lucky enough to get a good scholarship, so I wasted 3 years of my life and have very little debt.

Run as far away from your T4 as you can.  You won't transfer because you have absolutely no idea how well you will do your first year.  And going from T4 to T14 (the only place you can actually get a decent job these days) is near impossible.

A major news outlet just did a story about how NYU and Columbia law grads are struggling to find jobs that pay 50K per year.  Given the weight of evidence against going to law school, what makes you think you will be different?  I swear if you say it's because you are "special" or "have a drive no one else has", then you are a lost cause and it's not worth anyone's time trying to convince you otherwise.  You know the answer to your question. 

sollicitus

  • Guest
Re: Anyone getting scared about their decision to go to law school
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 11:05:58 PM »
I would avoid law school at all costs right now, especially a tier four. Yes, I am an anonymous poster, but when there are hundreds, if not thousands, of us out here talking about how bad it is, if law schools are getting sued, if law grads are struggling to find a job that just pays 40K per year without benefits and all of this is well documented at reputable news outlets such as Bloomberg and the New York Times, you cannot ignore the weight of evidence and think otherwise. STAY AWAY!!!

Where do I get my information from? Most of it is personal. I graduated last year from a T2 (which basically means a T4 in this economy).  Very few of my friends right now have jobs, and those of us who are lucky enough to have a job in the legal field are pulling in around 50K.  But Bloomberg, NYT, Wall Street Journal, lawsuits, scam blogs, it's everywhere.  Don't be an idiot and ignore all of noise.

Furthermore, don't listen to this crap argument "yeah, but you will struggle to find a job in any other field. May as well go for it."  What a stupid, illogical argument.  "Yeah, you may as well take on 150K of non-dischargeable debt to wait at tables/be a barrista at Starbucks/go solo and get sued for legal malpractice. That makes total sense."  I have an idea: take your B.S. in a useless humanities subject and go teach English overseas.  You will make about what you would make as a first year associate at a law firm, without a 2000 hour billable requirement and an egomaniac of a boss demanding you take two depositions per day for weeks on end.

Before I file a lawsuit, I make sure I do some investigation.  I do a background check on my client, research case law, etc.  If I were contemplating law school, a simple Google search would be all it would take to make me run very, very far away.  I was lucky enough to get a good scholarship, so I wasted 3 years of my life and have very little debt.

Run as far away from your T4 as you can.  You won't transfer because you have absolutely no idea how well you will do your first year.  And going from T4 to T14 (the only place you can actually get a decent job these days) is near impossible.

A major news outlet just did a story about how NYU and Columbia law grads are struggling to find jobs that pay 50K per year.  Given the weight of evidence against going to law school, what makes you think you will be different?  I swear if you say it's because you are "special" or "have a drive no one else has", then you are a lost cause and it's not worth anyone's time trying to convince you otherwise.  You know the answer to your question.

summery: don't go since you got a bad shake (see how easier and quicker it was that way)?

blue54

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone getting scared about their decision to go to law school
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2012, 11:54:56 PM »
 I got a "bad shake"? You have got to be kidding me, right? I really hope we meet in court someday. Since you obviously have resorted to quasi-personal attacks, and can't for the life of you back your statements up with facts, I have, in the spirit of open discourse, presented you with a random spattering of credited media outlets reporting on the oversupply of attorneys, the result of which is giving us all a "bad shake."  If all you can do is respond with an inflammatory opinion, well, actually, I am anticipating nothing less.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afIhC1AKOQE

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/20/the-bad-news-law-schools/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/business/law-school-economics-job-market-weakens-tuition-rises.html?pagewanted=all

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304692804577283691965596610.html

http://online.wsj.com/video/opinion-the-law-school-bubble/1B2D874C-CB9C-4897-9681-AA1F166ADEA1.html






cerealkiller

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone getting scared about their decision to go to law school
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 01:01:47 AM »
Blue54, save yourself the effort. In all seriousness, I think this guy might be borderline retarded. This cretin just hops from thread to thread insulting and antagonizing anyone who makes the mistake of acknowledging his lowly existence.



jack24

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1050
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone getting scared about their decision to go to law school
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2012, 02:54:57 PM »
Hey jbean29:

This thread is kind of crazy.

I would dissuade you from going to law school, but it's really not the worst choice in the world. 

There are basically three ways of getting a legal job these days
1: Knowing someone
2: Dominating law school, particularly at a law school employers care about.  (This applies to some T4 schools.)
3: Hustling at the right time and getting lucky.

As an example, Let's say you get into Washburn University in Topeka Kansas.  It's a low ranked school, but it's pretty well respected in Topeka, Kansas City, and Wichita.   Those are three decent job markets.    Let's say you dominate at Washburn (Top 10%, Law Review Editor, etc).  You could probably transfer to Kansas or another decent T2 school, or you could just stay at Washburn and continue to dominate. (highly recommended). 
If you have VERY STRONG connections, like a family member who owns a firm, it doesn't really matter where you go to school. 
If you dominate, your resume will have significant regional appeal.   If you were in the top ten percent after 1L, you are likely to get a good internship somewhere in the region, which could lead to a good job. 
However, if you moved to San Diego or something, you may have a tough time even though your resume is very impressive. Then you'd have to hustle.  Unfortunately, your effort doesn't pay off that well if you aren't in the area.  I finished law school and moved to my home state.  My networking efforts were ten times as effective when I actually lived where I want to work.   SO, if you are going to go to a T4 you really have to consider the market you want to live in.  You also have to consider the fact that half of your classmates probably won't get a law-firm or government job.  Even less will like their jobs.

Law degrees are incredibly valuable in many ways.  Some are possible to quantify in hindsight, some aren't (i.e., the increase in analytical ability that many law students enjoy).    My investment looks like it will pay off, even though the job hunt was brutal and long.  That said, it's not going to pay off by a ton.  I understand you want to be a lawyer, I did too, but you have a very low chance of practicing in the type of law you want.  The lawyers that enjoy their jobs are either lucky, or just have the right kind of attitude and focus, which means they can enjoy most anything.

I think most candidates should attack a few other markets before coming to law school.  If they still aren't finding the challenge and interest that they are looking for, then go to law school.   If you are going to law school for the money and you are going to a T4, you probably have less than a 30% chance it will pay off, even in the long run.




Between the articles, this forum, another forum I am on.. all I keep hearing is about how I will end up in debt without a job.

I have no other choice to attend a 4 tier at this point, and I am pretty confident that I will be able to transfer out.. that is my plan, but this is the rest of my life and I am about to get into a lot of debt and be thrown into a not great job market in 3 years.. I really don't want to regret ignoring everything I have been hearing.

But I honestly do want to be an attorney more than anything, and have always wanted to.