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Author Topic: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree  (Read 7085 times)

LincolnLover

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Re: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2012, 12:17:04 PM »
Well, when a Prof says it, you know it must be true.  ;D
It is still worth noting that if one expects to win a case in court, he still must meet the qualifications to apply.
Can't make bread without dough.

As for his "have a life" comments, well if one expects to pass law school (and the fybx which has a nearly 3/4 attrition rate to it alone) had better get used to the idea of "not having a life".  :P

"you either didn't read it or don't understand what it means"

In all fairness, statutes and rules, are hard to read and undertsand even if you have practiced law for many years.

One of the good things about DL study is that you can focus on important things for the Bar like memorizing the UCC and some of the key Restatement sections.
Being able to regurgitate that stuff on command when appropriate will impress whoever is grading your exam far more than eloquent arguments based on fact not law.

Opie58

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Re: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2012, 09:59:45 PM »
While the argument continues to advocate that the states who require ABA law school graduation to take the bar most likely will not grant a waiver, there continues to be tangible examples to the contrary.  Therefore, one really never knows until one tries.

Example #1:  Massachusetts:  Everyone knows about Mitchell v. Board of Bar Examiners, 452 Mass 582, http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/452/452mass582.html.

Examples #2:  Idaho:  See http://isb.idaho.gov/pdf/rules/ibcr.pdf.  Rule 201 says “… successful completion of a degree from an Approved Law School, …”  Rule 200(e) defines “Approved Law School” as fully or provisionally approved by the ABA.  In 2001, a gentleman from Idaho graduated from Taft Law School & passed the CA Bar exam.  In 2002, he petitioned Idaho & was granted to take the Idaho Bar exam; no 3-5 years of experience.  He passed & is still practicing in Idaho.  (We exchanged emails, so I know this to be true & current).

These are just a couple of examples I personally know about; I’m sure there are others & it would be great if we, non-ABA folks, could mutually combine our knowledge with viable examples to create a database, per se, to assist in preparing those who wish to “rock the boat” and defy the nay-sayers.

jonlevy

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Re: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2012, 10:41:09 PM »
Note none of these are DL school graudates - online and correspondence grads are going to have the toughest time of it.


Louis v. Supreme Court of Nevada, 490 F. Supp. 1174 (D. Nev.1980),  dealt with a generalized challenge to the Nevada Bar's practice of waiving objections to the non-ABA accredited law schools that men attended and allowing them to take the bar, but refusing to grant similar waivers to women thereby precluding such women from taking the bar.

Nordgren v. Hafter, Civil Action No. E84-0130(L), UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF MISSISSIPPI, EASTERN DIVISION, 616 F. Supp. 742; 1985 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 16453, August 27, 1985
Plaintiff has no constitutional right to sit for the Mississippi bar examination without complying with the educational requirements of § 73-3-2 and Rule V. The ABA-accredition requirement is rationally related to the state's legitimate interest in ensuring that each applicant for the bar has a uniform quality legal education

In the Matter of the Application of Margaret L. MACARTNEY and Roger M. Sherman, to be Admitted as a Member of the State Bar of the State of Arizona
163 Ariz. 116; 786 P.2d 967; 1990 Ariz. LEXIS 278; 53 Ariz. Adv. Rep. 7
Petitioners graduated from the Nevada School of Law Old College (Old College) in Reno, Nevada, a non-ABA accredited school. The court granted the applicants' motion for reconsideration and granted their petition for waiver of the requirement that they have graduated from an ABA-accredited law school prior to sitting for the Arizona bar examination. The applicants were allowed to take the Arizona bar examination, provided they met all other requirements that applied to applicants in general.

In Re Petition of Paul Dolan for Review of the State Board of Law Examiners' Decision and In Re Application of Milton Welsh Schober for Admission to Practice Law in the State of Minnesota, 445 N.W.2d 553; 1989 Minn. LEXIS 224
The court granted the application of the first lawyer that the Board of Law Examiners had recommended be admitted. Regarding the second lawyer, the court ordered that his application be remanded to the Board for development of a complete factual record if he wished to pursue the matter further.

In re Application of Gail Collins-Bazant for Admission to the Nebraska State Bar on Examination.
254 Neb. 614; 578 N.W.2d 38; 1998 Neb. LEXIS 132
The court granted the attorney's application for a waiver of the application of rule 5 and permitted the attorney to sit for the Nebraska bar examination.

LincolnLover

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Re: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2012, 03:10:51 PM »
Not true Prof. I clicked on the link and on the top of the page read the following:

BOTSFORD, J. This bar admission matter comes before us on a reservation and report by a single justice of this court. The plaintiff, Ross Mitchell, is a 2004 graduate of Concord Law School (Concord), a wholly online law school that is authorized by the State of California to grant the degree of juris doctor. Mitchell is also a member of the California bar, having taken and passed that State's bar examination in 2004. Because Mitchell holds his law degree from a school that, by virtue of its online character, does not qualify for accreditation or approval by the American Bar Association (ABA), Mitchell fails to satisfy

After his first efforts to obtain permission to take the bar examination failed, Mitchell filed this action against the Board of Bar Examiners (board) in the county court, challenging the constitutionality of rule 3:01, § 3.3, as applied to him and, in the alternative, seeking an amendment to that rule or a waiver of the rule in his case. We conclude that in the particular circumstances of this case, Mitchell's request for a waiver should be granted

However, one must also note the following:

In connection with the law degree, Mitchell graduated with "highest honors," and was the class valedictorian. [Note 3] Following his graduation, he sat for and passed the California bar examination, and was admitted to the bar of California in November, 2004. [Note 4] He was admitted to practice before the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in December, 2004, and before the United States District Court for the Central District of California in March, 2005.

Caveat: He didn't win because he challenged the rules to apply (waiver on the waiver notion) but he MET the qualifications to apply within the waiver rules (already licensed in another state) That and I bet the class standing helped win over the board as well.


Note none of these are DL school graudates - online and correspondence grads are going to have the toughest time of it.


Louis v. Supreme Court of Nevada, 490 F. Supp. 1174 (D. Nev.1980),  dealt with a generalized challenge to the Nevada Bar's practice of waiving objections to the non-ABA accredited law schools that men attended and allowing them to take the bar, but refusing to grant similar waivers to women thereby precluding such women from taking the bar.

Nordgren v. Hafter, Civil Action No. E84-0130(L), UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF MISSISSIPPI, EASTERN DIVISION, 616 F. Supp. 742; 1985 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 16453, August 27, 1985
Plaintiff has no constitutional right to sit for the Mississippi bar examination without complying with the educational requirements of § 73-3-2 and Rule V. The ABA-accredition requirement is rationally related to the state's legitimate interest in ensuring that each applicant for the bar has a uniform quality legal education

In the Matter of the Application of Margaret L. MACARTNEY and Roger M. Sherman, to be Admitted as a Member of the State Bar of the State of Arizona
163 Ariz. 116; 786 P.2d 967; 1990 Ariz. LEXIS 278; 53 Ariz. Adv. Rep. 7
Petitioners graduated from the Nevada School of Law Old College (Old College) in Reno, Nevada, a non-ABA accredited school. The court granted the applicants' motion for reconsideration and granted their petition for waiver of the requirement that they have graduated from an ABA-accredited law school prior to sitting for the Arizona bar examination. The applicants were allowed to take the Arizona bar examination, provided they met all other requirements that applied to applicants in general.

In Re Petition of Paul Dolan for Review of the State Board of Law Examiners' Decision and In Re Application of Milton Welsh Schober for Admission to Practice Law in the State of Minnesota, 445 N.W.2d 553; 1989 Minn. LEXIS 224
The court granted the application of the first lawyer that the Board of Law Examiners had recommended be admitted. Regarding the second lawyer, the court ordered that his application be remanded to the Board for development of a complete factual record if he wished to pursue the matter further.

In re Application of Gail Collins-Bazant for Admission to the Nebraska State Bar on Examination.
254 Neb. 614; 578 N.W.2d 38; 1998 Neb. LEXIS 132
The court granted the attorney's application for a waiver of the application of rule 5 and permitted the attorney to sit for the Nebraska bar examination.

Opie58

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Re: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2012, 04:49:51 PM »
... Ross Mitchell, is a 2004 graduate of Concord Law School (Concord), a wholly online law school ...

Oops, I error - Taft or Concord, both fit in the same category.  But, the point still remains - you never know until you try.  The MA Board attempted to deny based on his not having an ABA approved law degree; however, he pursued the matter further & was granted the waiver - exceptions can be made if you put together a valid argument and attempt to obtain an exception.  Could've, would've, should've are all subjective; facts are facts - and the facts are it can be done if people try; the more excepts are made, the relevant the non-ABA/DL position.

jonlevy

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Re: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2012, 10:28:14 PM »
Two instances of successful petitions for DL grads, to me that says chances of anyone else getting past the correspondence school black list are slim and none. Unless you can show me a few more, I'd say petitioning is largely a waste of time and effort. Better to concentrate on doors that are already open.

Opie58

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Re: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2012, 01:48:39 AM »
Two instances of successful petitions for DL grads, to me that says chances of anyone else getting past the correspondence school black list are slim and none. Unless you can show me a few more, I'd say petitioning is largely a waste of time and effort. Better to concentrate on doors that are already open.

All I can tell you is the guy from Idaho told me the school had nothing to do with his waiver being granted, it was his having passed the CA bar exam, while Mass. focused on the school's accreditation.  So, again, one never knows until they try.  I haven't done any extensive research to find more - other things to focus on currently - however, some precedent has been set - even small as it is - so I say give it a shot, what do you have to lose.

jonlevy

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Re: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2012, 05:46:00 PM »
What one has to lose is a lot of time, hassle and expense.

LincolnLover

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Re: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2012, 07:26:42 PM »
worth the note that it will vary a lot by state, so what one guy in says in state A may not matter much in state B.

Two instances of successful petitions for DL grads, to me that says chances of anyone else getting past the correspondence school black list are slim and none. Unless you can show me a few more, I'd say petitioning is largely a waste of time and effort. Better to concentrate on doors that are already open.

All I can tell you is the guy from Idaho told me the school had nothing to do with his waiver being granted, it was his having passed the CA bar exam, while Mass. focused on the school's accreditation.  So, again, one never knows until they try.  I haven't done any extensive research to find more - other things to focus on currently - however, some precedent has been set - even small as it is - so I say give it a shot, what do you have to lose.

LincolnLover

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Re: Where can you get admitted with California DL degree
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2012, 07:27:26 PM »
They have a name for that, its called "lawschool".  ::) ;)

What one has to lose is a lot of time, hassle and expense.