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Author Topic: are there any states that will let you to take the bar exam from a non aba sch?  (Read 9308 times)

LincolnLover

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You appear to have been right (on both issues) the bar did direct me to bar examiners who told me as follows: ( I am asking them in responce how it's legal to have had the "lawschool" in that state to begin with then, I will see what they say. It should be interesting)

Kentucky Supreme Court Rule 2.014 states that “Every applicant for admission to the Kentucky Bar must have completed degree requirements for a J.D. or equivalent professional degree from a law school approved by the American Bar Association or by the Association of American Law Schools.”  (In fact, the  Association of American Law Schools no longer is authorized to “approve” law schools, so the ABA approval is the only one that matters.)

 

The rule goes on, in subsequent paragraphs, to provide an exception for non-ABA accredited law school graduates who (1) become licensed somewhere other than Kentucky and practice for three of the past 5 years; and (2) can show that the legal education at the non-accredited law school is the substantial equivalent of the legal education they would have received at an ABA-accredited law school in Kentucky.  This latter requirement is very difficult  because, most of the time, if the law school could show substantial equivalency, it would be accredited by the ABA.  Also, the non-ABA accredited law school must be accredited in the jurisdiction where it exists.

 

Because the Barkley School of Law was not accredited by the ABA, you would be required to, first be admitted in another jurisdiction and practice for three out of five years,  next, show that Barkley was accredited in Kentucky, and then establish that the legal education offered by Barkley was the substantial equivalent of the legal education you would have received at an ABA-accredited law school in Kentucky.  The Board does not evaluate an applicant’s legal education unless and until, the applicant meets the other threshold requirement of three years of practice.

 

Your message did not include information as to whether you are admitted in another jurisdiction and whether you have practiced for three of the past five years,  If not, you would be ineligible for admission, without regard to educational equivalency.  Last year, the Kentucky Supreme Court addressed an application from a Barkley School of Law graduate who was not admitted in any jurisdiction, so he had not practiced law for three years.  The Court upheld the application denial.

 

I regret that my response could not be more encouraging and I wish you well in your endeavors.



jonlevy

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Great job on the research!

As to your legality question, since Barkley was not representing itself as something it was not (ABA approved) then I do not see how Kentucky could stop it from setting up shop unless it was making material misrepresentations.  There have been several lawsuits and at least one pending one by a former student pro se who claims Barkley was a RICO enterprise and engaged in loan fraud of some sort.

Novus on the other hand, may cross the line into diploma mill territory which can be illegal.

LincolnLover

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How would it be different than Novus if both said they were "lawschools" but neither claims to be aba approved?

Great job on the research!

As to your legality question, since Barkley was not representing itself as something it was not (ABA approved) then I do not see how Kentucky could stop it from setting up shop unless it was making material misrepresentations.  There have been several lawsuits and at least one pending one by a former student pro se who claims Barkley was a RICO enterprise and engaged in loan fraud of some sort.

Novus on the other hand, may cross the line into diploma mill territory which can be illegal.

jonlevy

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Barkley had a real school with real law professors and classes and seems to have intended to get ABA accreditation.

The Barkley degrees are real enough - they just are not accredited.

A diploma mill awards a degree for little or no work so that the purchaser can claim they have a degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_mills_in_the_United_States

LincolnLover

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Although some states (I believe TX is one of them) have made it illegal to use an unaccredited degree, isn't the issuance of one still legal since the accrediting is "voluntary" in America and especially if the school is "licensed" to operate in it's jurisdiction. (Novus being Marshall Islands) ?

Barkley had a real school with real law professors and classes and seems to have intended to get ABA accreditation.

The Barkley degrees are real enough - they just are not accredited.

A diploma mill awards a degree for little or no work so that the purchaser can claim they have a degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_mills_in_the_United_States

jonlevy

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Being incorporated in the RMI (Republic of the Marshall Islands) means nothing except someone incorporated an offshore company. It in no way implies any approval by the RMI. And I can assure you, no one from Novus is resident in the RMI. I would say it is a gray area at best - diploma mills are one reason why DL and correspondence law degrees are held in such disrepute. Places like Novus make it harder for everyone who is pursuing a legitimate DL law degree and seeking to practice law because ignorant and biased people fail to realize the difference between studying law for a degree and just paying money for a diploma.

LincolnLover

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would that give you standing to sue (since you are  a lawyer and it affects you for reasons you gave)? If so, it'd get your name out there and fix the problem in theory.

Being incorporated in the RMI (Republic of the Marshall Islands) means nothing except someone incorporated an offshore company. It in no way implies any approval by the RMI. And I can assure you, no one from Novus is resident in the RMI. I would say it is a gray area at best - diploma mills are one reason why DL and correspondence law degrees are held in such disrepute. Places like Novus make it harder for everyone who is pursuing a legitimate DL law degree and seeking to practice law because ignorant and biased people fail to realize the difference between studying law for a degree and just paying money for a diploma.

jonlevy

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First you need a plaintiff who has standing and the defendant can be sued in any jurisdiction where they do business if I understand your question correctly.  Just not liking them is not grounds to sue.

LincolnLover

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True, but you said it hurt the rep of other online grads. Didn't you say before you were a Prof with an online JD?
If it affects reputation isn't that standing for its impact on possible income?

First you need a plaintiff who has standing and the defendant can be sued in any jurisdiction where they do business if I understand your question correctly.  Just not liking them is not grounds to sue.

jonlevy

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Good question, let's see why there is not a remedy for every wrong:

1.  There is no negligence because they don't owe me any duty of care.

2.  There is no contractual relationship with them.

3.  There is no intentional interference in my business affairs.

4.  There is no defamation.

I do not think there is any standing to sue, as a concerned citizen I could contact my state attorney general or the Federal Trade Commission and file a complaint.