Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Poll

Who will win 2012 presidential election?

Paul
 2 (10.5%)
Romney
 5 (26.3%)
Obama
 10 (52.6%)
Gingrich
 0 (0%)
Nader
 2 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Author Topic: Who will win 2012 presidential election?  (Read 7284 times)

Julie Fern

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 27216
  • hillary clinton say "boo!"
    • View Profile

LincolnLover

  • Guest
Re: Who will win 2012 presidential election?
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2012, 10:41:51 AM »
It is a crime in many states (even if just civil infraction) to not have a stae ID if a cop asks for it. Even if homeless sleeping on a park bench. If it's illegal to not have a state ID to begin with, then that should be factored in to the "fairness" of requiring it to vote.

Besides the "why would they" argument, is like asking why they'd bother to pay taxes on said barter transactions. They won't but it's still a federal tax crime all the same.

fortook

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
    • View Profile
Re: Who will win 2012 presidential election?
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2012, 11:38:24 AM »
No offense buddy, really, but you are very naively getting technical with what is or what's practical.  Just because there is a law does not mean it is functional or everyone obeys or even knows about it or cares.

No cop in inner city Baltimore is asking anyone for an I.D.  If someone has the misfortune to be interacting with the police, they will be in jail in less than a half hour.  Either a crime has been committed or the police suspect a serious crime has been committed.  If you think homeless people carry I.D. to cater to the police you have never met a homeless person.  Homeless person goals:  its cold, I want to be warm; I'm hungry, I need to find food; I just got beat up, I need to go somewhere else; the rats are eating me while I sleep, I need to sleep of the ground.....  Not once in the mind of anyone so desperate and destitute does the thought: "I should go get I.D. so if a cop asks I can show him", ever come to mind.

Of course poor people in the ghetto aren't paying taxes on barter.  Dude.  They are bartering because they don't have the money to buy what they need.  So yes is every poor person committing tax invasion on some level, yes.  Will that be the new GOP agenda- poor people not paying taxes on a dresser traded for a chair?  After their ability to vote is depleted, of course.

I guess bottom line: what you seem to think is typical and common, isn't typical and common for everyone.   A better question is: why do you think people should be asked for I.D. when voting, considering there is already a voter registration process in place and voter fraud is not a serious problem throughout the U.S. (fear of illegal immigrants having votes isn't enough, the current system stops that).  Why stop there, should we pay taxes for the privilege of voting?  Shouldn't their be a dress code?  What about property, shouldn't only property owners vote?  What about education? Criminal history? Employment status?
"Thank you for inviting me, Mrs. Palin." "Thank you for cutting your mullet, Levi."

LincolnLover

  • Guest
Re: Who will win 2012 presidential election?
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2012, 03:29:19 PM »
So despite it all ready being a legal requirment to have a state ID, you still think people shouldn't have to prove they are who they say they are when they go to vote?

No offense buddy, really, but you are very naively getting technical with what is or what's practical.  Just because there is a law does not mean it is functional or everyone obeys or even knows about it or cares.

No cop in inner city Baltimore is asking anyone for an I.D.  If someone has the misfortune to be interacting with the police, they will be in jail in less than a half hour.  Either a crime has been committed or the police suspect a serious crime has been committed.  If you think homeless people carry I.D. to cater to the police you have never met a homeless person.  Homeless person goals:  its cold, I want to be warm; I'm hungry, I need to find food; I just got beat up, I need to go somewhere else; the rats are eating me while I sleep, I need to sleep of the ground.....  Not once in the mind of anyone so desperate and destitute does the thought: "I should go get I.D. so if a cop asks I can show him", ever come to mind.

Of course poor people in the ghetto aren't paying taxes on barter.  Dude.  They are bartering because they don't have the money to buy what they need.  So yes is every poor person committing tax invasion on some level, yes.  Will that be the new GOP agenda- poor people not paying taxes on a dresser traded for a chair?  After their ability to vote is depleted, of course.

I guess bottom line: what you seem to think is typical and common, isn't typical and common for everyone.   A better question is: why do you think people should be asked for I.D. when voting, considering there is already a voter registration process in place and voter fraud is not a serious problem throughout the U.S. (fear of illegal immigrants having votes isn't enough, the current system stops that).  Why stop there, should we pay taxes for the privilege of voting?  Shouldn't their be a dress code?  What about property, shouldn't only property owners vote?  What about education? Criminal history? Employment status?

fortook

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
    • View Profile
Re: Who will win 2012 presidential election?
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2012, 04:49:47 PM »
Shoulda, woulda, coulda!!! Really?  Its not about what's should be, its about what is-  What is practical and aware and ultimately functional.   Have I been wasting all my time writing with you about this?  We have gone over this and after all this writing I am no longer on the fence with this issue:

The push for voting I.D. is a means to change the voter pool in jurisdictions from Dem to Repub.  Its a shady political ploy to push out voters and influence elections.  If life were fair, the proponents of something so sinister wouldn't be permitted to vote because they are trying to deprive other of their ability to vote (but its not fair and nothing practical can be done).  The voter registration system is functional, fine and works.  WE DO NOT HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH VOTER FRAUD.  ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CAN'T VOTE. Why do you think we do?  The only major problems in recent history have been administrative mistakes, not fraud or even suspected fraud.

No, voters should not have to "prove" who they are with I.D.  A voter registration card is sufficient.  Thinking about this in this forum has put me on one clear side of this issue, where before I was undecided and truly hadn't given it much thought because it doesn't impact me (and maybe I even feel guilty for not taking the time to try and see it from the perspective of a poor person). Now I am clearly opposed to voter I.D.
"Thank you for inviting me, Mrs. Palin." "Thank you for cutting your mullet, Levi."

Julie Fern

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 27216
  • hillary clinton say "boo!"
    • View Profile
Re: Who will win 2012 presidential election?
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2012, 09:40:48 PM »
It is a crime in many states (even if just civil infraction) to not have a stae ID if a cop asks for it. Even if homeless sleeping on a park bench. If it's illegal to not have a state ID to begin with, then that should be factored in to the "fairness" of requiring it to vote.

Besides the "why would they" argument, is like asking why they'd bother to pay taxes on said barter transactions. They won't but it's still a federal tax crime all the same.

julie notice you not want discuss republican hallucinations concerning vote fraud.  these arguments you deem clever not folling julie, and probably no one else.

it too bad you oppose democracy.  friggin' commie.

Julie Fern

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 27216
  • hillary clinton say "boo!"
    • View Profile
Re: Who will win 2012 presidential election?
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2012, 10:00:36 PM »
Shoulda, woulda, coulda!!! Really?  Its not about what's should be, its about what is-  What is practical and aware and ultimately functional.   Have I been wasting all my time writing with you about this?  We have gone over this and after all this writing I am no longer on the fence with this issue:

The push for voting I.D. is a means to change the voter pool in jurisdictions from Dem to Repub.  Its a shady political ploy to push out voters and influence elections.  If life were fair, the proponents of something so sinister wouldn't be permitted to vote because they are trying to deprive other of their ability to vote (but its not fair and nothing practical can be done).  The voter registration system is functional, fine and works.  WE DO NOT HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH VOTER FRAUD.  ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CAN'T VOTE. Why do you think we do?  The only major problems in recent history have been administrative mistakes, not fraud or even suspected fraud.

No, voters should not have to "prove" who they are with I.D.  A voter registration card is sufficient.  Thinking about this in this forum has put me on one clear side of this issue, where before I was undecided and truly hadn't given it much thought because it doesn't impact me (and maybe I even feel guilty for not taking the time to try and see it from the perspective of a poor person). Now I am clearly opposed to voter I.D.

you fine american.

jonlevy

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 548
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Who will win 2012 presidential election?
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2012, 10:33:35 PM »
The real solution is a national ID or an internal passport. The Republicans would be the first to scream about that. A drivers license is a credential to operate a vehicle, it is not really meant to be ID but just evolved into one because there is no unifrom ID. The Feds could provide the new ID for everyone free of charge, no inconvenience to the poor because they could get theirs at the social services office. Creating 300 million IDs would create a lot of temporary jobs too.  This would also solve the illegal alien problem.

But republicans like Rommney and his corporate buddies don't want a real ID because then they could not hire illegal workers for their corporate farms etc.

fortook

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
    • View Profile
Re: Who will win 2012 presidential election?
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2012, 11:51:17 AM »
That argument has been going on for years.  Post WWII America was too afraid of the NAZIesque line any national I.D. (papers) would present.  It is creepy, to me and to many others.  It would not stop the illegal immigration "problem" because they already know how to successfully stay under the radar.

Any added process is always a burden on the poor.  This is how you want to use the gov to provide jobs, really?  Not infrastructure construction?  Not Americorps?  Not alliterative energy?  Not education?  Not senior centers?  Not food banks?

Romney is a venture capitalist, btw.  He buys dying companies for cheap and sells them for more.  He has no farms.  On that level, immigration is not relevant to him, personally.  It is to some of his fam.  It is to some of his supporters, but his position on immigrations is harsh, has been getting harsher as he has to appeal to the extreme elements of the new repub party.  Politically he has to slit the throats of illegal immigrants to appeal to the repub base, who incidentally hate illegal immigrants with a vigor that defies all reason. 
"Thank you for inviting me, Mrs. Palin." "Thank you for cutting your mullet, Levi."

jonlevy

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 548
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Who will win 2012 presidential election?
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2012, 12:58:06 PM »
Foretook - you are obviously ignorant that the Mormans are some of the biggest agribusinness operators in the country.

A national ID scares you but not the Patriot Act?

If an illegal immigrant did not have a national ID, that would pretty much resolve the issue, right now they can whip out a matricular card and borrow money on a mortgage and get welfare benfits becuase we have no real ID for the country.

So called defenders of freedom are usually defenders of corporate profits first and foremost.

If you haven't figured it out yet Mitt will say anything to get elected, what he will do is another matter.