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Author Topic: DON'T DO IT!!  (Read 4928 times)

Logan420

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DON'T DO IT!!
« on: November 14, 2011, 02:53:58 AM »
Unless you're a rockstar with a 3.9 college GPA (from a respectable school) and a 175 or above LSAT score, law school is a huge mistake.  The only way getting a law degree is worth it in this economic climate is if the school pays YOU for the privilege of attending all 3 years, pays your room and board, your food, your entertainment needs, your bar prep class (nothing beats Barbri), your Bar Exam fees, your MPRE fees, your moral application fees, all fees associated with extra-curriculars like law review, journals, legal externships, clerkships, etc.  The only way a respectable law school will pay you to attend is if you are a rockstar and they can brag about you in their school stats.  Being able to put esquire after your name and having people call you "counselor" is hardly worth being crushed under the weight of $150k of debt.  The bank doesn't care that there's more lawyers out there than jobs; like a good loan shark, it will threaten to break your legs if you don't come up with the cash by the due date.  And the bank's threats are hardly empty.  Don't figure that just because you excel in law school and pass the bar exam on the first try that you are guaranteed anything; you are guaranteed nothing.  With debt that mounts by the day, the beloved law school that you are now fighting so hard to be accepted into will have you by the balls and you will be contemplating crimes you learned the legal repercussions of in first year criminal law.  Even as I write this I know it will do little to deter the majority of determined students who think a juris doctor is the answer right now.  It probably wouldn't have deterred me back then either.  But then again, I never read such an unglowing review.  Everyone deserves to be informed; this is your informing.

Signed,

Disillusioned in Cali

Hamilton

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Re: DON'T DO IT!!
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2011, 09:54:22 AM »
While you are not wrong - don't expect your perspective to be heeded, appreciated, or even believed.

bigs5068

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Re: DON'T DO IT!!
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 02:15:05 AM »
Your right doing well in school and passing the bar doesn't guarantee you anything. Getting a job as a lawyer is more competitive than ever, but then again I ask what professions isn't competitive. What form of education is cheap? Making it in life is difficult and school is not the real world. Getting A's in architecture school won't guarantee you a building contract or make your buildings up to code. To get a building contract you will compete with possibly hundreds of other firms and even if you get the contract you will have to bust your ass to get the job done. If you screw up the project then a bunch of lawyers will fight  eachother so they can represent the architect.  The real world is far more competitive than school. In school your paying to be there in the real world you have to bring value or your gone end of story.

That is why school is the first baby step into any profession. Doing well in school does not mean your going to succeed in your career even if you went to Harvard. Life is hard no matter what field your in and law is no different. Don't go to law school if you expect anything to be handed to you. It is very possible you will study for 3 years pass the bar and struggle to find a job. That is the reality of it, but that is the same for anything out there. However, odds are in time you will find a job after 100's if not thousands of rejections, but someone will give you a shot. Then you have to make the best of the shot your given and if your not getting sh** done you will be back on the streets no matter what school you went to or what your class rank was.


justanothersucker

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Re: DON'T DO IT!!
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 08:47:29 PM »
And your source of knowledge is.....?

Unless you're a rockstar with a 3.9 college GPA (from a respectable school) and a 175 or above LSAT score, law school is a huge mistake.  The only way getting a law degree is worth it in this economic climate is if the school pays YOU for the privilege of attending all 3 years, pays your room and board, your food, your entertainment needs, your bar prep class (nothing beats Barbri), your Bar Exam fees, your MPRE fees, your moral application fees, all fees associated with extra-curriculars like law review, journals, legal externships, clerkships, etc.  The only way a respectable law school will pay you to attend is if you are a rockstar and they can brag about you in their school stats.  Being able to put esquire after your name and having people call you "counselor" is hardly worth being crushed under the weight of $150k of debt.  The bank doesn't care that there's more lawyers out there than jobs; like a good loan shark, it will threaten to break your legs if you don't come up with the cash by the due date.  And the bank's threats are hardly empty.  Don't figure that just because you excel in law school and pass the bar exam on the first try that you are guaranteed anything; you are guaranteed nothing.  With debt that mounts by the day, the beloved law school that you are now fighting so hard to be accepted into will have you by the balls and you will be contemplating crimes you learned the legal repercussions of in first year criminal law.  Even as I write this I know it will do little to deter the majority of determined students who think a juris doctor is the answer right now.  It probably wouldn't have deterred me back then either.  But then again, I never read such an unglowing review.  Everyone deserves to be informed; this is your informing.

Signed,

Disillusioned in Cali

GGI

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Re: DON'T DO IT!!
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 01:07:26 PM »
"Disillusioned in Cali" has a point though. Be realistic about life so you do not ever find yourself becoming "disillusioned" with anything, wherever you are.

Giuseppe Giusti
Attorney and Author of Soft Skills for Lawyers
http://softskillsforlawyers.blogspot.com/

IClawstud

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Re: DON'T DO IT!!
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 03:32:16 PM »
I was actually sitting waiting for a professor yesterday at my undergrad and read this article about how a law degree is actually still very valuable. Applications for law school are down to some of their lowest levels of all time. In addition the U.S. unemployment rate is about 9%, but unemployment for lawyers, higher than normal, but still under 3%. It went into some other statistics about debt to salaries, but the main point being that becoming a lawyer isn't about wining the lottery to became fast rich. It takes a lot of hard work and should be considered only if you are truly interested in the law.

john4040

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Re: DON'T DO IT!!
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 04:02:46 PM »
unemployment for lawyers, higher than normal, but still under 3%.

I'll bet that the survey counted barrista as "employment" for a lawyer.  When you consider that the 3% of unemployed lawyers presumably passed the bar exam (thus, are somewhat intelligent) and shelled out thousands for education (as opposed to those in the 9% unemployment group), I'm not so sure you should be so smug about the 3% lawyer unemployment rate.

Go look at how many legal jobs there are per law school graduate.  That should give you a better idea of the real unemployment / underemployed rate.

Denny Shore

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Re: DON'T DO IT!!
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 05:23:21 PM »
As a 3L with many friends who have already graduated within the last 2 years, any article that says that legal unemployment is at 3% is obfuscating the truth.
Yes, applications are down about 10% this year, but that's after steadily increasing for decades.  More important to this discussion, the number of JD's awarded is up 13% over the last decade.
There are more law students in law school than there are currently practicing law.
If I could go back in time, I might have just gone out and gotten me an MBA.....

LincolnLover

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Re: DON'T DO IT!!
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2011, 05:25:55 PM »
I see a lot of opinions for and against law school on this board. Can someone explain to me why anyone would think a JD would get you a non legal related job to such an extreme as to drop the unemployment rate into less than a third of that of the national average?

Would you really have the world believe that employers of resterants and grocery stores and assembly lines really give that much extra support for lawyers? I'm pretty sure the GED bigmac tastes just as good as the one made from someone with an LLM.

LincolnLover

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Re: DON'T DO IT!!
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2011, 05:27:34 PM »
What jobs would you have gotten with an MBA (in this economy) that you wouldn't have been able to get with your BA that pay better and better employment stats than lawyer?

As a 3L with many friends who have already graduated within the last 2 years, any article that says that legal unemployment is at 3% is obfuscating the truth.
Yes, applications are down about 10% this year, but that's after steadily increasing for decades.  More important to this discussion, the number of JD's awarded is up 13% over the last decade.
There are more law students in law school than there are currently practicing law.
If I could go back in time, I might have just gone out and gotten me an MBA.....