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Author Topic: Civil disobedience and the age of consent  (Read 1675 times)

.Chuck

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Re: Civil disobedience and the age of consent
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2011, 06:55:15 PM »

It is certainly an emotionally charged topic but that doesn't prevent rational discussion of it. 

As already said, adults engaging in sexual behavior with adolescents/underage boys or girls is wrong and there is no rational or moral defense to such acts since it is clearly predatory.

The issue of sex between teenagers where one is over and the other under the legal age of consent (or even where they are both over the age of consent just barely or both under it depending on which set of state laws apply) presents a very different set of issues that are much more complicated and difficult to deal with.   

A lot of that mess and the legal/legislative backlash contained in the current sex offender laws was motivated by some notorious date rape and sometimes gang rape at a party and/or in a party environment cases where the offenders were caught 'red handed' by evidence of their dicks being where they shouldn't have been.  It's no secret that some teenage or younger boys do things to get young girls drunk or drugged up in order to get laid when at a party/club/wherever to prey on intoxicated girls in order to get their rocks off.  No matter the age of the boy or girl, when sex occurs while the young girl is heavily intoxicated/under the influence of something and would not otherwise consent, it is rape and the boy(s) that do it are sexual predators/deviants. 

I'm sure most people that read this board have been at parties/a club/etc. where a girl gets wasted and would be very easy to take advantage of.  A big indicator of the moral fiber of dudes is how they behave when in that type of situation.  Any guy, no matter his age, that takes advantage of the girl in such circumstances is by definition a sexual predator and should be prosecuted and put in the lifetime sex offender registry since if they are willing to do it once, they will probably do it again given the opportunity.  The guys with a moral compass pointing in the correct direction will not take advantage of and hopefully will try to protect the girl somehow.

Here is one of many news articles about a sickening case where a few teenage guys gang raped an intoxicated girl at a house party while the parents were out of town.  It's even more disgusting because the party was at the house of the assistant Sheriff of the county at the time and one of the rapists was his son, Gregory Haidl.
 
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-greg-haidl,0,1950024.story

Sex between young people that are in a relationship and/or it is clearly consensual/agreed to with clear minds is a different story.  Most prosecutors usually take all these things into account when evaluating/weighing the available evidence and statements while deciding how to deal with the case.  There are not that many boyfriend girlfriend consensual sex cases where the boyfriend was unfairly convicted and given the lifetime scarlet letter.
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FalconJimmy

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Re: Civil disobedience and the age of consent
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2011, 08:00:13 PM »

I'm sure most people that read this board have been at parties/a club/etc. where a girl gets wasted and would be very easy to take advantage of.  A big indicator of the moral fiber of dudes is how they behave when in that type of situation.  Any guy, no matter his age, that takes advantage of the girl in such circumstances is by definition a sexual predator and should be prosecuted and put in the lifetime sex offender registry since if they are willing to do it once, they will probably do it again given the opportunity.  The guys with a moral compass pointing in the correct direction will not take advantage of and hopefully will try to protect the girl somehow.

What you're describing there is just flat-out rape, though.  It's not statuatory rape.  It's just rape.


Sex between young people that are in a relationship and/or it is clearly consensual/agreed to with clear minds is a different story.  Most prosecutors usually take all these things into account when evaluating/weighing the available evidence and statements while deciding how to deal with the case. 

Sorry, but that's a total bull basis for a law.  What you're saying is that you won't get charged with statuatory rape, even if you are guilty of it, if the prosecutor doesn't feel like it.. unless he does.

A public policy that's based on "well... prosecutors usually won't completely destroy your life except when they feel like it" is bad public policy.

FalconJimmy

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Re: Civil disobedience and the age of consent
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2011, 08:13:59 PM »
I have a lull before I dig back into outlines, but if you want to see just how incredibly bat-**** crazy the results can be when you outlaw teen sex, you should check out

Humphrey v. Wilson, 282 Ga. 520, 652 S.E.2d 501 (2007)

Here's a news article on it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/27/us/27georgia.html

My son is too young to be sexually active, but someday he will be.  It is utterly ridiculous that an overzealous prosecutor could give him a penalty that's pretty much a notch below a life sentence since a conviction on a sex offense also means a lifetime on a sex offender registry.  Even more ridiculous?  There wouldn't be a single affirmative defense he could raise on his behalf.  Normal human behavior + prosecutor who enforces the law as written = may as well kill yourself because you'll never hold a decent job or be able to live somewhere without your neighbors hating you. 

Kids, frankly, are generally experimentive and should have the right to explore their sexuality with other consenting kids of like age without having to deal with the spectre of a felony hanging over their heads.

Trouble is, who's going to speak up for sex offenders?  Who's going to speak out against statuatory rape?  No genuine social dialog can take place on this.  On the far right, we have fundamentalists who truly do want to punish premarital sex with a felony and on the far left, we have feminists who think that any sex is rape.  That leaves the moderate middle scratching our heads and praying to god that junior doesn't end up on the wrong side of a typical youthful incident.

Also note that the "reform" of the law in the case I cited is that instead of 10 years and a lifetime on a sex offender registry, today he would spend 1 year in jail with a lifetime on the sex offender registry.  Granted, it'd be a misdemeanor conviction, but really now?  I mean, I can name a whole lot more people who have had teenage sex than who smoked pot and we don't make the potheads register for life.

GGI

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Re: Civil disobedience and the age of consent
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2011, 11:35:04 AM »
Yes guys, I agree, I do not quite like this topic. I do not know how old you are now, but if you are at least in your 30s or 40s, then you would understand perfectly the reason age of consent laws exist.

Giuseppe Giusti
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.Chuck

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Re: Civil disobedience and the age of consent
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2011, 03:33:25 PM »

I'm sure most people that read this board have been at parties/a club/etc. where a girl gets wasted and would be very easy to take advantage of.  A big indicator of the moral fiber of dudes is how they behave when in that type of situation.  Any guy, no matter his age, that takes advantage of the girl in such circumstances is by definition a sexual predator and should be prosecuted and put in the lifetime sex offender registry since if they are willing to do it once, they will probably do it again given the opportunity.  The guys with a moral compass pointing in the correct direction will not take advantage of and hopefully will try to protect the girl somehow.

What you're describing there is just flat-out rape, though.  It's not statuatory rape.  It's just rape.


Sex between young people that are in a relationship and/or it is clearly consensual/agreed to with clear minds is a different story.  Most prosecutors usually take all these things into account when evaluating/weighing the available evidence and statements while deciding how to deal with the case. 

Sorry, but that's a total bull basis for a law.  What you're saying is that you won't get charged with statuatory rape, even if you are guilty of it, if the prosecutor doesn't feel like it.. unless he does.

A public policy that's based on "well... prosecutors usually won't completely destroy your life except when they feel like it" is bad public policy.

No, that is not what I said or implied.  Statutory rape is still rape.  The age of consent laws vary by state and there are discrepancies between jurisdictions.   

What I was talking about at the end of my previous post is prosecutorial discretion. 

Police officers and prosecutors have discretion to decide whether or not to make an arrest or to file charges with each situation that comes to their attention somehow. Whether that discretion is exercised in a way that you or everyone or whoever agrees with at the time is a different matter. It depends in part on the laws of the jurisdiction, the facts & circumstances of the incident plus the attitude/views/disposition of the law enforcement officials involved.  For police and/or prosecutors to become aware of an incident and get involved there has to be a report/complaint from somebody unless a cop just happens to stumble across people in the act in a public area.

There are plenty of incidents each year (not just sex cases, all types of situations including underage drinking, drug use, domestic disputes, etc.) where the police decide not to make an arrest or the district attorneys office decides not to file charges and prosecute.  That's part of how the criminal justice system works in practice.  Cops that find underage young kids doing stupid things at night/at a party/in a park/smoking/shoplifting/drinking/you name it/etc. frequently just take the kids home (while scaring the $hit out of them on the way), tell the parents what they found the kid(s) doing and then let the parents discipline them.

I agree with GGI about understanding the reason for and justification behind age of consent laws.  Many teenage and early/mid 20s age guys behavior and decisions are heavily influenced by hormones and them thinking with the wrong head.
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fortook

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Re: Civil disobedience and the age of consent
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2011, 12:01:51 AM »
You should always be afraid to eat at McDonald's.
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Beppo

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Re: Civil disobedience and the age of consent
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2012, 12:32:01 PM »
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sollicitus

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Re: Civil disobedience and the age of consent
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2012, 12:43:09 PM »
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Teenagers get horny and stupid. We all know that. No secret.
What's your point? That it's ok to molest kids? Can someone ban this freak and lock this thread already?

IrrX

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Re: Civil disobedience and the age of consent
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2012, 12:59:19 PM »
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Teenagers get horny and stupid. We all know that. No secret.
What's your point? That it's ok to molest kids? Can someone ban this freak and lock this thread already?

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