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Author Topic: scholarships  (Read 1454 times)

prelaw12

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scholarships
« on: August 14, 2011, 05:40:44 PM »
I am trying to figure out the basis on which scholarships are given out at law schools. Is it higher than average lsat and gpa, or just random, or what. It could definately influence my choice of colleges that I apply to by knowing how the scholarships are delegated. Anyone have a clue?

bigs5068

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Re: scholarships
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2011, 05:51:35 PM »
The majority of them are based on LSAT/GPA and if you are a URM(Minority)  with marginal numbers you will probably get a substantial scholarship. Law schools don't really care what undergrad or major you had they just want to manipulate the rankings, which is a whole other story. So what schools will do is pay for people with a with 3.4 162 to attend their school whose incoming students have an average GPA of 3.0 and 155.  They don't care if you graduated from Timbucktu state majoring gin basket weaving or went to UCLA majoring in physics. For law school scholarship purposes you are better off with a 4.0 from timbucktu state in basket weaving than a 3.2 from UCLA in Physics. It is a screwy system, but it is how it operates.

Lawschoolnumbers.com does a great job of showing you what numbers you need to get scholarships at certain schools. I highly recommend checking it out.

Cereal_Killer

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Re: scholarships
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2011, 08:48:31 PM »
I respectfully disagree. I think the perceived prestige of one's undergraduate institution and major is just as important in scholarship decisions, if not more, than UGPA. If you don't think so, just ask yourself which of these two law school applicants you'd rather be: (1) a  M.I.T. graduate who holds a degree in chemical engineering with a 3.75 GPA or (2) an University of Phoenix graduate who holds a degree in Early European Literature with a 3.95 GPA? I think the answer is obvious. Now, of course, one's academic background doesn't perfectly predict law school success, but it's naive to think it's not weighted heavily into the decision-making process as it relates to scholarship awards.

Moreover, I suspect admission councils have a great deal of latitude with respect to who gets awarded a scholarship and who doesn't. Consequently their decisions are likely not bound by blind adherence to some sort of LSAT/UGPA index. Just take a glance at Lawschoolnumbers.com to confirm this. You'll see people who have identical LSAT/GPA numbers and get nothing while others get generous scholarship awards. 

fortook

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Re: scholarships
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2011, 09:56:06 PM »
Early European Lit is pretty darn academic.  You should have picked something lamer, or at least less rare to make your point.  BTW, I know they tell us all in school that science people are smart and everyone else is stupid, but maybe, just maybe they are pushing their own agenda and playing us all like a fine musical instrument orchestrating what students study.  In such a scenario, its the science majors that are duped. Everyone takes Calculus, but hardly any Anglos learn Spanish or any other language for that matter.  Languages are more deficient and under represented than any other field we have got.  So yes, a law school might pick the grad from Phoenix over the MIT grad, even if their GPAs are almost exactly the same.
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fortook

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Re: scholarships
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2011, 10:06:02 PM »
Oh, sorry prelaw.  I got sidetracked in all the minutia.  Scholarships, from my understanding (which is limited, schools don't share this info), are mostly LSAT based.  The schools want to up their stats on the ABA website.  I'm sure it varies per school, depending on what numbers they want to bolster.

I'm not one of those authors that come on LSD to sell their books and haven't read it, but Law School Undercover may address scholarships.  I would at least think so.

Lawschoolnumbers.com can give you a base idea.  Most applicants list the money they get with their scores.  Its by no means exact, but it will give you an idea of where to focus your efforts.
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bigs5068

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Re: scholarships
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2011, 12:27:40 AM »
I'm just saying what I have seen from my own personal experience. Schools particularly tier 2,3,4 schools are extremely caught up in the rankings. The rankings blindly use GPA/LSAT to determine who they give money to. My logic does not apply to elite level schools Harvard, Yale, Columbia, etc are well respect so they will look at the major and undergraduate institution etc, but I know people from several schools who had easy majors and high GPA's from no name schools who got scholarship money. I know people who had difficult majors and went to well known schools who did not get scholarship. U.S. News does not report what undergraduate school or major the students went to they just report the numbers. I think it is a retarded system, but it really is how it works. I myself got 29 units of free A's for playing basketball and I got a significant scholarship from my school for my GPA. It is not right, but it is what happened.

This guy for example a 3.7 from UNLV in Public Administration and a 152 LSAT scholarship at several schools gave him scholarship money. UNLV is an ok school and public administration is a major, but I don't think anyone is going to say it is the most difficult route you can choose. http://lawschoolnumbers.com/fireLaw

This person went to a Top 10 school don't know what that means, but I assume an Ivy League and got had a 2.67. He got very little money considering he had a 160. The person with the 3.7 and a 152 got more money. http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MoarRoar

Small Private school with a 3.85 and a 166 a few HUGE scholarships. http://lawschoolnumbers.com/JLuc8686

I could go on all day, but really a lot of schools look solely at the numbers. There are exceptions, but if you get a 4.0 in basket weaving from Timbuktu State and a respectable LSAT score there will be a few huge scholarships coming your way.




fortook

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Re: scholarships
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2011, 10:29:00 AM »
I'm down with ya bigs.  Your points and clear, and I think correct.  I have one question:  You knew someone who got into an Ivy with a 2.67 and a 160?  Not impressive scores, what else did he do?  Was it just money and connections?  Or something more available to the masses (us).

You're right btw, no one cares what your major was- you want to practice law. To a lesser extent- no one cares what school your under grad was- undergrad just isn't that important anymore.  Its all about numbers, because numbers are easily quantifiable and everything else isn't. 
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bigs5068

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Re: scholarships
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2011, 12:44:41 PM »
The 2.67 160 guy did not get into an Ivy League school. He went to an Ivy League school got a 2.67 and 160 then got no scholarship money. Therefore, he would have been better off going to a worse school and getting a higher GPA. In regards to numbers be easily quantifiable I suppose that is true, but numbers are the most easy thing to manipulate as well.


fortook

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Re: scholarships
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2011, 01:13:40 PM »
Lol, how did I misinterpret that?  Sometimes I can be a little slow.  :)

You are right about the manipulation as well.  I was researching the stat reporting allegation cases against Cooley and NYSL.  The arguments are more compelling than I thought they would be.  I still don't think they can win though, they probably expect the schools to settle.  I want to see what happens, more schools loom in their sites.  And lets face it some of these school are parasitic, it would be better for everyone if they closed down.
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bigs5068

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Re: scholarships
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2011, 03:36:15 PM »
The stat reporting cases are a little ridiculous to me. I don't blame the schools for using a little puffery in their employment numbers. No school guarantees you will get a job or salary and students particularly students going to Law School should have the ability to do sufficient research before making a 100,000 3 year investment.

I am assuming you are referencing the Thomas Jefferson lawsuit and others being brought forward, by law students taking no accountability for their decisions. That kind of behavior drives me up the wall and I can't stand it. I hope the law schools admit the plaintiff's personal statements into evidence when they detail how they overcome any challenge, are so hard working, etc etc talking about how smart, diligent, and responsible they are then blame their school for them not succeeding.

Granted the salaries are manipulated, but they do report them. You just have to look at the numbers a little in depth. Thomas Jefferson for example lists the information on the website, but they put the numbers in a more favorable light. http://students.tjsl.edu/employment_statistics?contentType=flash

84% of students were employed. Ok so does employed mean? Only 58% were employed in a law firm and 7.5% of these 58% are solo practitioners which just means they did their own thing so nobody really employed them. So that means 51% were actually received a legal job. Then 38% of that 51% got jobs in firms of 2-10 people, which generally are not paying high salaries. 36.6% are in firms of unknown size so that is completely vague. So the info is there and if you took two minutes as I just did to look at the numbers students would realize getting a job a a lawyer is difficult. However, getting a career started in any field is difficult. What really shocks me about these cases is that these law students know the time and financial commitment of law school and they took no time to research the numbers. I took two minutes and figured out TJSL is not getting people 100k a year jobs at graduation. People that get into law school are not idiots either they are college graduates who generally had a 3.0 or above, were intelligent enough to get a decent LSAT score, they had people write recommendations for them, and then they write a personal statement about how great they are. This indicates to the school that these people are competent enough to make a decision for themselves. When things don't work out for you it is not right to go point the finger at someone else. I guess we will see how it all turns out. I'm almost certain these students will lose though and I hope they do.