Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Poll

Good for Cooley students?

Yes
 1 (20%)
No
 2 (40%)
Possibly
 2 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Voting closed: August 13, 2011, 05:20:53 PM

Author Topic: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012  (Read 7452 times)

fortook

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
    • View Profile
Re: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2011, 01:44:44 PM »
Specifics are needed.  What is being said? What does Cooley accuse, the only two specific attorneys mentioned of saying?  How can they sue "anonymous" bloggers?  Did they actually pay to a forensic IT investigation?

I read the article published by Cooley, but that is hardly objective.  I will admit, while their argument may be valid in terms that they are better than assumed, it shows blatant and shotty ethics to self publish an article stating that oneself is among the best.  Hence, I cannot trust anything self published by Cooley.

I'm not saying Cooley sucks, mind you, only that the tactics they use are poor and transparent, ultimately counter productive- Hamilton's original point, btw.  I try to be open minded enough to give the school the benefit of the doubt, rather than condemn them right out of the gate (which most people seem to do).

What, specifically, is being said that they contest?
"Thank you for inviting me, Mrs. Palin." "Thank you for cutting your mullet, Levi."

lawstudent#1

  • Guest
Re: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2011, 01:47:31 PM »
I'm not your paralegal, look it up yourself. Google is amazing, so is yahoo.

If you can't do that, good luck in Legal Research and Writing with westlaw and lexis.

fortook

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
    • View Profile
Re: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2011, 01:52:49 PM »
Okay.  Your just trying to be a dic.k.  You are that guy- cooleylawstudent.  Ha, I remember you.  Cooley's reputation  is your passion not mine.  I don't go to Cooley.  You do.

Your insecure anger is as apparent as Kanye West and almost as amusing.

Kisses 
"Thank you for inviting me, Mrs. Palin." "Thank you for cutting your mullet, Levi."

lawstudent#1

  • Guest
Re: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2011, 02:00:19 PM »
Okay.  Your just trying to be a dic.k.  You are that guy- cooleylawstudent.  Ha, I remember you.  Cooley's reputation  is your passion not mine.  I don't go to Cooley.  You do.

Your insecure anger is as apparent as Kanye West and almost as amusing.

Kisses

Just remember that argument in court. See how far you get with it.
If you need spoonfeeding(sigh) here is an examples I pulled up(with yahoo and less effort than your reply)
http://www.cooley.edu/newsevents/2011/071411_Cooley_Protects_Alumni_Students_and_Reputation.html

LANSING, Mich., July 14, 2011

Cooley Law School Files Suit to Protect Students, Alumni and Reputation
Complaints
2011 07 014 Summons and Complaint (pdf)

2011 07 14 Summons and Complaint (pdf)
 
Press Contacts
 
Karen Hogan
SeyferthPR
Phone: 1-800-435-9539
hogan@seyferthpr.com

 
Terry Carella
Director of Communications
Phone: (517) 371-5140, ext. 2916
carellat@cooley.edu
 

The Thomas M. Cooley Law School filed two lawsuits today to protect the reputation of the school and its students and alumni from defamatory Internet attacks. In the two actions, the law school asserts defamation and other legal claims against a New York City law firm, two lawyers in that firm, and four anonymous Internet bloggers.

"With ethics and professionalism at the core of our law school's values, we cannot and will not sit back and let anyone circulate defamatory statements about Cooley or the choices our students and alumni made to seek their law degree here," said Brent Danielson, Chair of Cooley's Board of Directors and a retired District Court Judge.

The lawsuits were filed earlier today in Ingham County (Mich.) Circuit Court.

In one lawsuit, Cooley contends that the law firm of Kurzon Strauss LLP and two lawyers in that firm, David Anziska and Jesse Strauss, defamed Cooley by falsely claiming on Internet websites, social media, and email that Cooley, a nonprofit 501(c)(3) Michigan educational corporation, has defrauded students by misrepresenting its graduate employment placement rates, average starting salary figures, and student loan default rates. In the other lawsuit, Cooley claims that four anonymous Internet bloggers defamed the law school in a series of Internet statements on several websites over the last few months.

"Cooley has consistently and truthfully reported job placement and salary figures in the manner required by the American Bar Association (ABA), our accrediting agency, and by the National Association for Law Placement (NALP), a national jobs-reporting clearinghouse," said Charles Toy, associate dean of Career and Professional Development at Cooley and the immediate past president of the State Bar of Michigan.

Consistent with all 201 ABA accredited law schools, Cooley's job placement rates are reported annually to the ABA and NALP nine months after graduation based upon the results of graduate surveys in full compliance with the reporting methodology required by those agencies. Cooley's reported job placement rates have ranged from the current 76 percent up to 82 percent in 2006, with a similar range reported back to 2000.

"Everyone has the right to state an opinion about Cooley, online or elsewhere," said James B. Thelen, Esq., Cooley's associate dean for legal affairs and general counsel. "But our lawsuits contend that these defendants have crossed the line both legally and ethically, -
smearing our reputation with blatantly false and often vulgar statements that they attempt to spread as broadly as possible."

"In one online statement," Thelen said, "the Kurzon Strauss firm claimed as facts that there were reports that Cooley students defaulted on their student loans at a 41 percent rate and that Cooley was misreporting its default rate. Both are lies. Cooley doesn't even calculate its default rate that function is handled by the U.S. Department of Education's Default Prevention and Management Office, and our last official two-year default rate calculated by the federal government was 2.2 percent."

Cooley Law School, based in Lansing, Mich., is accredited by both the American Bar Association and the Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association of Schools and Colleges. On the most recent Michigan bar examination, Cooley's graduates had the second highest pass rate of the five Michigan law schools, just behind the University of Michigan.


Hamilton

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
    • View Profile
Re: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2011, 02:18:12 PM »
The big question is whether "I was just following ABA standards" is a good enough defense.

From the article: http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20110811/NEWS06/108110316/4-grads-sue-Cooley-for-250M-saying-job-finding-salary-numbers-inflated?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|FRONTPAGE

"If the plaintiffs were to prevail, it would "set a very disturbing precedent from the perspective of all ABA-accredited schools," said Paul Campos, a professor at the University of Colorado Law School. "That's probably the most important defense that law schools have at present, the claim that they're just following the regulatory requirements placed upon them by their accrediting body," he said.

Campos is a critic of the way schools report employment information. The current ABA standards are "very defective," he said.

Still, he said, "if a law school were found to have followed the regulatory rules, but those rules were found so defective that the entire industry is potentially liable for some kind of fraud or negligent misrepresentation or deceptive business practice, that would be a big problem."

fortook

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
    • View Profile
Re: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2011, 02:50:33 PM »
He deactivated his LSD account.  He' ll be back with a different name, he always is.  Like a cockroach out of the wall when he hears the word "Cooley".  I should have waited before I called him out, oh well.  I doubt that he knows hes making Cooley students look like fools.

I honestly, don't know any specific details about how schools report their stats.  I suspect Campos is right. I can say from my own experience, I have seen a school misreport their stats to the ABA.  The numbers they reported were so deflated I could count an excess of student well over what was reported by virtue of being there.  I also know so many recent 2010 grads, good students, that don't have a job yet.  One was even in the top ten percent and is still looking.  Students from schools with much better numbers than Cooley, T3 and T2 schools.  Scary.
"Thank you for inviting me, Mrs. Palin." "Thank you for cutting your mullet, Levi."

pslaw2011

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2011, 03:21:27 PM »
I'll be a little bold here I suppose, but I really think that if you have a BA and a JD and you have no job at all (after 6 months or so) you have some personal problems.

After a reasonable amount of time it would make sense to switch from practicing law only positions to the law related or JD preferred positions. Then to keep involved in the legal community and continue searching for an actual practicing position. Who sits there with no job and says "No! I must practice law or nothing!" ?

Hamilton

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
    • View Profile
Re: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2011, 03:41:32 PM »
One, the BA-only folks are having a hard time finding work and mentally, it's got to be VERY difficult to look for a job FAR below your education level and expectations - it just smells bad and creates a stigma.  The the questions start... 'you went to law school and you are kitchen manager at Weenie World?  What's wrong with you?  Why did you even BOTHER with law school?'  Also, once you take that non-practicing-lawyer job you virtually eliminate becoming a practicing attorney as an alternative in the future.  As you toil away in your non-lawyer job, fresh new JDs are coming out of school and snatching up the positions that are available.  After a couple of years you are no longer a shiny new penny, you've been away from the law, and generally wont be desireable to firms looking for new associates.

I'll be a little bold here I suppose, but I really think that if you have a BA and a JD and you have no job at all (after 6 months or so) you have some personal problems.

After a reasonable amount of time it would make sense to switch from practicing law only positions to the law related or JD preferred positions. Then to keep involved in the legal community and continue searching for an actual practicing position. Who sits there with no job and says "No! I must practice law or nothing!" ?

fortook

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
    • View Profile
Re: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2011, 03:47:58 PM »
I'm not at all trying to be mean or disrespectful, pslaw2011.  I'm guessing that you are either not in law school or a 1L.  The job market is grim, very grim.  Region matters, as does the specific school when seeking employment.  Everyone has a Bachelors.  Everyone has a JD.  Everyone is competing for a limited  number of jobs.  Everyone seems to think that employers will be beating down their door, trust me, they won't.  Hundreds of new grads apply for the same positions every year.

More speculation:  your starting at Penn State this fall.  That's good.  Penn State has an impressive draw in PA.  Just remember, Pitt, U. Penn, Temple, Vil. all do too.  Those who have a tough time finding a job have nothing wrong with them.  There are just too many of them, well too many of us.

There is something compelling and refreshing about the optimism of youth.  ;D
"Thank you for inviting me, Mrs. Palin." "Thank you for cutting your mullet, Levi."

pslaw2011

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Cooley Law School's New Tampa, FL campus opens 2012
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2011, 06:32:48 PM »
I am a current law student & not at Penn State.

Sorry to bust egos but a non law job beats the unemployment office any day. I also said "JD Preferred" positions- meaning state/local government analysts, nonprofits, academia, etc. I'm well aware of the economy being a total toilet at the moment, anyone who is or plans on working for a living knows that.

I'm saying it is important to be creative and resourceful. Going to law school for 3 years and working summers might not work in this economy for most people.