Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: open your own practice  (Read 2436 times)

orenk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
open your own practice
« on: August 03, 2011, 01:04:48 AM »
It seems like everybody is worried about finding a job after law school.  People are all worried that if they don't graduate in the top 10% then their job prospects would be weak, or if they don't go to a T1 school they'll be broke. Seriously?  Why all the worry and *&^%.  Does everybody have to go work for a big law firm or the gov't or a judge? Why not go open up your own practice and set your own hours and choose the cases that you want to work on instead stressing over the cases that you'll get in a big firm.  And don't tell me there's no money in a private practice. You'll make a lot more money on your own then you would working for somebody else i.e sucking on big mommas titty. Plus you'll set your own hours and have the freedom to work anytime you want.  If I go to law school I don't think I can ever work for a big firm longer than 1 year. After that I would have to open up my own practice.

IrrX

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
  • You find yourself in a very actionable position.
    • View Profile
    • Smith
Re: open your own practice
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2011, 03:02:55 AM »
I was going to write out a lengthy response to this, but there's nothing you asked that can't be answered by the original posts here with a lot more information than I feel like typing out. And it's all accurate. So, heed the advice or enjoy Pt. Barrow, AK. It's this year's Guam.
Note: Insults made by me apply to everything associated with the people and ideas being insulted, except for other people.

Quote from: IamAnXMan
IRRX, it seems you enjoy provocation and antagonism.

orenk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: open your own practice
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2011, 02:30:26 PM »
 ;D :P

ok!

orenk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: open your own practice
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2011, 03:47:49 PM »
That whole page did NOT answere my question.  No where did it mention anything about opening up your own practice.

IrrX

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
  • You find yourself in a very actionable position.
    • View Profile
    • Smith
Re: open your own practice
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2011, 09:41:17 PM »
It did, sort of, in the section on crushing debt and IBR. But it definitely answered all of the questions previous to the one about hanging a shingle, making that one moot.

In other words: you're getting ahead of yourself. Think about how many firms and single lawyers already exist in pretty much every town over 11k people in this country. Then think about the failure rate of new businesses. Then think about if you had a legal issue you needed resolved, and if you would want someone established or someone who hasn't been in practice outside the supervision of a "real" lawyer. You're going to be sharking DUI cases that are too poor to pay for an experienced lawyer and make too much for a PD or legal aid. It's going to take a lot of those cases to pay the expenses of running a practice, your regular expenses, malpractice insurance, CLE and your loan payments.
Note: Insults made by me apply to everything associated with the people and ideas being insulted, except for other people.

Quote from: IamAnXMan
IRRX, it seems you enjoy provocation and antagonism.

orenk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: open your own practice
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2011, 11:41:30 PM »
wow you seem to be living in fear.  Just because you think thats going to happen to you it doesn't mean it's going to happen to others.  Step out of that negative mindset. If I ever become a lawyer I will definetly open my own practice. And guess what?  I'll gaurantee that I will be succesfull. The only thing holding me back right now  is that I don't want to pay for it so I'm searching for scholarships to fund most if not all of my education because I hate being in debt for education. Education should be free for everybody but thats another topic altogether.

Here's a quote for everybody to memorize:

"Without a doubt, the most common weakness of all human beings is the habit of leaving their minds open to the negative influence of other people" --Napoleon Hill   


Thane Messinger

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
Re: open your own practice
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2011, 12:03:15 AM »
wow you seem to be living in fear.  Just because you think thats going to happen to you it doesn't mean it's going to happen to others.  Step out of that negative mindset. If I ever become a lawyer I will definetly open my own practice. And guess what?  I'll gaurantee that I will be succesfull. The only thing holding me back right now  is that I don't want to pay for it so I'm searching for scholarships to fund most if not all of my education because I hate being in debt for education. Education should be free for everybody but thats another topic altogether.

Here's a quote for everybody to memorize:

"Without a doubt, the most common weakness of all human beings is the habit of leaving their minds open to the negative influence of other people" --Napoleon Hill   

This isn't exactly the reason to think twelve times before starting your own practice.  Doing so right out of law school, for all but a tiny percentage, is extraordinarily dumb.  As a friend once said, new solo practitioners are walking malpractice machines.  Sad but true. 

IF you're willing to duplicate the learning process in a firm or DA/PD's office, maybe.  IF you're willing to spend twice as much time on every case, billing less than full charge, maybe.  IF you're heart-numbingly aware of your own shortcomings, and are willing to absorb anything that anyone in practice is willing to teach you, maybe.  IF you're truly serious, maybe.  Anything short of that, and the answer is not just No, but a good ol Texas "Hell No."

Thane.

IrrX

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
  • You find yourself in a very actionable position.
    • View Profile
    • Smith
Re: open your own practice
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2011, 02:35:32 PM »
wow you seem to be living in fear.  Just because you think thats going to happen to you it doesn't mean it's going to happen to others.  Step out of that negative mindset. If I ever become a lawyer I will definetly open my own practice. And guess what?  I'll gaurantee that I will be succesfull. The only thing holding me back right now  is that I don't want to pay for it so I'm searching for scholarships to fund most if not all of my education because I hate being in debt for education. Education should be free for everybody but thats another topic altogether.

Here's a quote for everybody to memorize:

"Without a doubt, the most common weakness of all human beings is the habit of leaving their minds open to the negative influence of other people" --Napoleon Hill   

I actually have no personal investment in whether someone starts a firm, so I'm not sure of where you get the idea that I'm "living in fear" or that I "think thats (sic) going to happen to [me]" since my legal education is done and my career is established. It's not like I'm competing against anyone posting here for jobs or my livelihood, so I have no personal interest other than altruism in dissuading them from making what is likely to be the biggest mistake of their lives, compounded by making an even larger one, like trying to hang a shingle right out of law school. All I can do is try to inform you that you aren't the beautiful and unique snowflake you perceive yourself to be, that when you get into law school there will be a lot of people there who are smarter and will do much better than you will, that the career you create for yourself will likely in no way resemble the one you imagine for yourself at this moment, and that nothing is going to be the way you think it will be. It certainly won't be as easy as you think it will be. I've seen lots of people with your enthusiasm come and go, and when they go, so does the enthusiasm. Almost as a rule. Personally, I hope you're able to hang onto that, and I hope that you're able to make your dream a reality. But I'm not putting any money on it. I don't live in fear; I live in reality.
Note: Insults made by me apply to everything associated with the people and ideas being insulted, except for other people.

Quote from: IamAnXMan
IRRX, it seems you enjoy provocation and antagonism.

orenk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: open your own practice
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2011, 01:20:03 PM »
Actually each and everyone of us is a unique snowflake. Maybe in your world and in your "reality" that would happen, but in my world I can do anyting  I want.  Put in the effort and be peresistant!

jack24

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1050
    • View Profile
Re: open your own practice
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2011, 01:27:56 PM »
OP seems to be a bit of a flame, but oh well.

Thane and IrrX are exactly right.  I have contemplated opening my own firm and decided that it would be an incredibly stupid idea right now.
I am trained in finance, accounting, and business management.  I also have nearly seven years of experience in lending, and two of those years were spent working with small business loans.  Oh, and my legal experience is in criminal law and bankruptcy--two areas that are typically easier to break in on your own.
When a young dentist would come in (this is back in 2006) we couldn't get the loan documents done fast enough.  Dentists seem to always repay their commercial loans.  When lawyers came in for business loans, we would look at cash flow, cash flow, cash flow.  "Oh so you have a lot of energy and a great business plan?  Well so does everyone else."   So even during the glory days of law, it was extremely difficult for a young lawyer with no capital to find funding for their firm.  They almost always had to self-finance.  Now the market it all but destroyed.  Some sole proprietors do very well, especially in criminal law and bankruptcy, but they are the exception to the rule.  Successful law firms are usually built off strong partnerships that brought capital to the table--a lot of capital.  If you have $150,000+ in liquid cash money and a lot of experience, you can probably make a law firm work.   But if you are struggling to find new clients and you are leveraging your business, you are going to die a slow (or possibly not so slow) death of little business and high interest payments.

Putting all that aside, now is a bad time to start a law practice (unless you have a ton of money to invest while the market is slow in hopes of capitalizing on a recovery).  Also, starting a law practice right after graduation is nuts.    Go get a job working as an associate somewhere, save your money, get experience and clients, and do your research.  Then start a law firm and build it.  That is a vastly superior alternative to "Oh well, I couldn't beat my fellow law students and I can't convince anyone to give me a job, so I'm gonna go be a sole proprietor and dominate, because I'm better qualified despite my credentials."