Are CBA schools a joke?

[FalconJimmy]

Your first interpretation was correct. Generally, you can transfer from a non ABA to an ABA...
I noticed a few quotes from specific schools.  Apologies, I stopped reading when I saw a NY then FL schools.

No problem.  I didn't pull up any CA schools.  Just pulled up the first ones that came up on a google search for transfer law schools.

Based on the CA schools I pulled up, it appears that the better ones still don't accept transfers from state-accredited schools, but you are correct that at least two schools appears to.  Obviously, this is within the guidelines of the ABA.

So, to put a finer point on it, you can transfer out of a non-ABA school to, what, maybe 4 really poorly regarded California ABA schools.  You are 100% correct.  It's possible.  However, honestly, knowing what we know of those schools, if you wanted to go to one of them, it's not that hard to get admitted in the first place.

Loyola:

"Thank you for your interest in applying to transfer to Loyola Law School. The Faculty of Loyola Law recognizes the outstanding achievement of students at other ABA law schools through the transfer student program."

UCLA:

"Transfer applicants must have successfully completed an entire first-year curriculum at another American Bar Association (ABA)-approved law school."

UC Berkeley:

"A law student who has completed one year at another law school may apply for transfer status to enter the secnd-year class at Berkeley Law if... The first-year curriculum has been completed in a full-time program at a law school that is approved by the American Bar Association"

Golden Gate:

"If you have successfully completed at least one full year at another ABA-approved law school you may apply to transfer to the School of Law as a continuing student."

However, yes, it appears that California Western is receptive to non-ABA transfers:

" We can accept up to 30 credits (with a grade of C or better) from ABA schools or state bar accredited schools. "

Thomas Jefferson:

"We consider students from CBA and ABA accredited law schools."


So, yeah, I agree.  What you say appears to be correct.  I hope you'll forgive me for not pulling up the transfer policies of EVERY California school.  However, of the handful I tried, a couple will accept transfers from CBA schools.  It's not unreasonable to think that a couple of others that I didn't look up may be in the same boat.

[Duncanjp]

I attend a CBA school, Lincoln LS of Sacramento. I love it. My professors are judges and practicing attorneys, many of whom have been teaching there for 20 years or more. It works for me, Amy.

But there is a lot of truth in what people say about an ABA education vs. a state school. While you can get a J.D. from a state-accredited school without selling your soul to the bank, that's about where the advantage of a state J.D. ends. When I graduate, I'll only be able to take the CA bar. There has been some suggestion that I might be able to sit the bar in a few other states after I've practiced in California for 3-5 years, but it's a minority of states and I can't name a single one offhand. On the other hand, my wife's dearest friend since high school went to a state law school in SoCal. She recently retired from the Public Defender's Office after spending over 20 years litigating everything from forgery to murder cases. When she moved back to her family home in Kansas, she inquired about practicing there, and they told her, "So sorry, but you can't take our bar. You went to a state-accredited law school. Get the picture? Now get the hell out of this office."

To me, that's insanely elitist, but reality is reality. Frankly, with the glut of unemployed ABA graduates out there and the exorbitant cost of any law school (even state schools aren't exactly cheap), you really need to know why you want to attend law school, wherever you go. This is especially important if you're considering a state school over ABA. If you already have substantial experience and solid credentials in a particular field, and you know that 1) admission to the bar can only help your existing career, and 2) you will never leave California, then maybe you could make a state school pay off. I happen to fit the rather narrow profile of those who will almost certainly benefit from such an education, and I don't give a rip what they do in bleeping Kansas. I hate the Chiefs and I'm not moving there.

But if you're coming down from Canada, you may want greater mobility than a CBA will afford you. I've heard it said that many, if not most, attorneys end up working in fields of law that they never envisioned for themselves while in law school. It's just where the jobs led them, for good or ill. As a state school student, I'm going to apply my education to my field. I'll never defend or prosecute criminals. (God, who'd want to?) I'm in class with a lot of slightly older students, a retired prison warden, a director of human resources, and some private investigators, for example. I'm an insurance underwriter. Those of us with preexisting fields of concentration will be able to apply our legal knowledge within our chosen fields and as such, the ABA education probably isn't that necessary. But neither I nor probably most of them expect to compete for an associate attorney job in some random field of law after graduating. That would be a big step backwards career-wise, and with all the unemployed ABA grads out there, the competition would be pretty stiff.

[FalconJimmy]

I'm an insurance underwriter.

Duncan, I mean this in all sincerity, but that's a very good career field, isn't it?  How will having a JD help you?  Sincerely curious.

[Duncanjp]

I'm an insurance underwriter.

Duncan, I mean this in all sincerity, but that's a very good career field, isn't it?  How will having a JD help you?  Sincerely curious.

Hiya, Falcon. Lay underwriters underwrite less complex transactions than underwriting attorneys, with greater restrictions on the scope of the insurance they underwrite, the geographical territory in which they're allowed to work, and the amount of liability they're authorized to assume. Lay people process claims, but our attorneys actually decide them. A J.D., and more importantly, admission to the bar, will vault me out of the realm of laymen.

[FalconJimmy]

Hiya, Falcon. Lay underwriters underwrite less complex transactions than underwriting attorneys, with greater restrictions on the scope of the insurance they underwrite, the geographical territory in which they're allowed to work, and the amount of liability they're authorized to assume. Lay people process claims, but our attorneys actually decide them. A J.D., and more importantly, admission to the bar, will vault me out of the realm of laymen.

Thanks for the explanation.  It makes good sense for you to pursue this, then.  Best of luck.

[Duncanjp]

Hiya, Falcon. Lay underwriters underwrite less complex transactions than underwriting attorneys, with greater restrictions on the scope of the insurance they underwrite, the geographical territory in which they're allowed to work, and the amount of liability they're authorized to assume. Lay people process claims, but our attorneys actually decide them. A J.D., and more importantly, admission to the bar, will vault me out of the realm of laymen.

Thanks for the explanation.  It makes good sense for you to pursue this, then.  Best of luck.

Thanks. Nowhere to go but up. Honestly, I wish everybody on this forum the best of luck, in all sincerity. Whatever you hope to do after becoming an attorney, the path is long and arduous to get there. People have their particular hurdles. But ultimately, everyone has to pass the same exam. We can debate the wisdom of one's choice of schools, but the fact is that a license to practice law is a bloody hell of a mountain to climb, and there are no guarantees that you'll ever make it to the top once you start. I have to salute all of those who have made it all the way.
 
I'm tempted here to say, "The cream rises," but there's the first rule of humility: the only difference between God and a lawyer is that God doesn't think he's a lawyer.

Hey! I've been trying to remember a word that I have only ever heard William. F. Buckley use. He began a column with it once, years ago. I believe it starts with a D. It means to call attention to something by saying you're not going to call attention to it — a political device. I know it's out there. But I haven't heard it for 25 years. Anybody know what in the pumpkins that word is, offhand? I'd be grateful.

Anyway, best of luck, wherever the river takes you, Falcon. And to all to who are trying this.

[lawyerintraining]

If you are in CA then a CBE diploma should be fine. Same as other states which have non aba approved state only degrees.

I would hate to get it and try to go back to Canada though. That seems like an uphill battle.

[amyis]

Thanks for the advice, Duncan!
I'll definitely consider it when determining where to apply.

[justanothersucker]

Did you even bother to notice the the OP wasn't asking about transfering credits? No, what a suprise.

Wants an opinion on the value of the degree.

Have one?

[fortook]

What a dumbasss. I'm justanothersucker will be back in some other incarnation.